Is Andrew Lloyd Webber a Plagiarist?

I look at some pieces that sound very similar to ones already composed. It is quite a controversy because the Dutch composer Louis Andriessen had some harsh words: "There are two sorts of stealing (in music) - taking something and doing nothing with it, or going to work on what you've stolen. The first is plagiarism. Andrew Lloyd Webber has yet to think up a single note; in fact, the poor guy's never invented one note by himself. That's rather poor"
Furthermore, Kit and the Widow wrote a humorous tune called "Somebody Else" making fun of Lloyd Webber's originality.

[n]

The Echoes one is straight up the same thing. How? the mysteries of life.

[Niniane]

What's funny is that the Phantom's sequel, Love Never Dies, is set in New York around the time Puccini was visiting it to supervise his operas. Can you imagine if Webber had run with this idea?
"Giacomo! This is your cousin, Martino Puccini! Do you remember that sound you were looking for?"
It wouldn't have saved the musical, but it would have been funnier to watch as opposed to just painful.

[williamdavidhilton]

Andrew Pink Lloyd Puccebber, a genius at theft, the cat burglar of opera.

[justintime]

Puccini’s family did successfully sue Andrew Lloyd Webber for the second Music Of The Night melody shown here, and ALW agreed to an undisclosed settlement and to pay a portion of the royalties in perpetuity. Whenever anyone sings Music Of The Night on a professional stage, Puccini’s family gets paid. Ouch! I discovered the aria from Faciulla Del West after I heard Music Of The Night and it always makes me think of MOTN whenever I hear it. I wish I’d heard the aria first, because it’s an unwelcome distraction to think of MOTN in the middle of it. Puccini’s family deserves the money, regardless of whether the phrase was consciously or unconsciously “borrowed.”

[seanlewis]

Phantom of the Opera theme...? It’s just a chromatic pattern. All composers are influenced by others. John Williams is heavily influenced by Wagner and Tchaikovsky

[lilliedoubleyou]

Hold on now. "Ave Maria" doesn't seem fair, as *Evita* thematically establishes a connection (juxtaposition?) between the eponymous character and the religious imagery of the Virgin Mary. You see this almost immediately in "Oh What a Circus." So if her motif sounds like "Ave Maria, " that seems almost deliberate.

[samisuomalainen]

Puccini used tens of riffs from other. Madame Butterfly is a collection of old stuff from 18th and 19th century.

[katsu-.-.--.....-.----...--]

In one of his videos, he said that some of his songs were meant for an opera involving Puccini, which could be the reason why he took/stole some of his pieces

[HaydenofEverything]

Okay, I'm tired of people saying that Andrew Lloyd Webber stole the chromatic descending chords in Phantom's title track from Pink Floyd. Why? Because Pink Floyd themselves could have just as easily stolen it from Igor Stravinsky's ballet "The Firebird". All three are the same idea and, if I'm not mistaken, Stravinsky could have easily sued Pink Floyd over Echoes had he not died six months prior.

[jaybonn]

Bach: no one can own a chord progression. If that were true music would have had a full stop after the first 10 releases of the duop progression the 50s progression 60s 90s and now. Compare 100 songs to billions that are being created every decade

[jaybonn]

Oh my god people you can't own chord progression. Then there'd only be 100 songs in existence

[AJLV]

As musician myself, I can share one fun thing - sometimes you get the idea of melody in your mind, and you can literally be unaware that perhaps it's bc of some song you heard long ago, years, decades, even. And there's some phrase or tune that just catch in subconscious mind and comes out later, and you don't even know it's not your own. My mother had that happening - she wrote a song from scratch, and only later someone pointed chord similarities with some very, very old schlager.
And also - don't know how it's globally, but here - 8 beats long fragment from the song, that is the limit. If it doesn't exceed 8 beats, it's not plagiarism. It's legally allowed. Anyone knows Ghostbusters theme song? Try to find how many songs in that time period have similar to almost identical bass tune. You'd be surprised.

[matthewmurphy]

I remember watching Pink Floyd play Echoes on Live at Pompeii. I instantly thought that sounds like Phantom. Also Memory sounds like California Dreaming.

[timmccarthy]

Eh... A couple are very close. Others, a stretch.

[paralucent]

I don't see the problem with composers writing variations on a theme by another composer. Composers have been doing that for hundreds of years.

The Star Wars theme is indisputably based on King's Row by Korngold, but it's far more memorable than anything Korngold wrote:

[martindew]

I think the links are tenuous at best. Even if ALW has borrowed from other composers, he's in great company, and is certainly not the first. He also improves on what went before, even if he has consciously or unconsciously copied. "Don't cry for me..." is a beautiful heartfelt and yearning melody and isn't even the best song in Evita.

There are a host of numbers in The Beautiful Game, The Woman in White and Stephen Ward which I believe are as good as anything Rogers and Hammerstein wrote, but get little airing because the works are not held in as high esteem as his earlier ones. I would challenge anyone to find the plagiarism links in some of these later shows.

[zalba]

The theme of Memory isn't a rip-off of Bolero, but of Franco Leonis Opera L'Oracolo!

[Quevivamarioteran]

I think that life's too long to bother with suing Andrew fucking Lloyd Webber. (Roger Waters, Pink Floyd)

[dir]

There are 12 notes in music and limited ways one can combine melodic progressions to have them sound musical and pleasing to listen to. Clearly, as a result, there are countless similarities in melodies throughout music compositions. One can make comparisons and claim similarities endlessly. Where do we draw the line? One note, two notes, three, four, five? Therefore compositions must be listened to in the entirety to draw conclusions or make claims of plagiarism and be tested in a court by experts where the court can decide if a work warrants protection for the 28 year protection period. Also, there is a difference between inspiration and plagiarism. I question your motivation or goal in making these contentious claims.

[scsquibb]

The trial before pilate is more or less directly taken from Stravinsky's firebird suite