Shadowheart's 'Parent Points' Explained

More digging into Baldur's Gate 3's script files = more of Shadowheart's secrets revealed. What makes her decide to spare or kill her parents when left to her own choice? Why does her sense of smell seem to come and go?

[SlimXG]

This was all researched and recorded on Patch 6, version 4.1.1.5022896

[Dorumin]

The placebo noblestalk has got to be one of the funniest things in the game

[yabirabdelkader]

Okay so now I know why she wanted to kill her parents even with max approval and all of her dialogues in the city

[ProxyGateTactician]

lol the "strap in" with the giant list of different stuff I paused and was like holy shit looking it all over amazed at how many areas there were. then unpause "just kidding".

[cryptk]

It seems like having high Nightsong Points causing her to kill her parents may be intended, since sparing them causes Shar’s curse to last forever.

A true Selunite Shadowheart understands that it’s a necessary sacrifice to truly break Shar away from her and her parents forever, placing them in Selune’s embrace.

It’s bittersweet, but a much happier ending in the long term, she’ll see her parents again when the curtain calls, and won’t need to live with Shar’s pain up to that point.

[BingBangPoe]

It's mindblowing how layered Shadowheart's arc is. You got the approval, the "Nightsong Points" and then the "Parents Points". On my first playthrough the dialogue about the city smells happened right after seeing the grafitti. But it's very weird. I had her approval maxed, got her to spare the Nightsong on her own and found all those Parents Points triggers, but she _still_ chose to sacrifice her parents at the end if you let her choose. It's so complicated, lmao. Personally I think that, while bittersweet, her letting her parents go is the "right" choice since it's what any parent would do: sacrifice themselves for the sake of their child; but this is very debatable. Awesome content as always!

[Profesor]

One of my most favourite moments through the 30 or so playthoughs was when sharran shadowheart saved her parents by herself. I havent managed to repeat that since. Thanks for the explanation.

It is super interesting because the extra NOT could be both a feature and a bug :D

Thanks.

[arttuluttinen]

All I've ever had is dead Shadowheart parents. Now I know it's because of a couple of missed chats from city rambling, good to know!

[ryredux]

I’ve done both choices with Shadowheart and her parents. I feel like her saving them is a better option. Especially as she settles down with them (and you if you romance her) and from the epilogue party and the dialogue available, Shadowheart’s wound is lessened, and she seems to deal with it pretty well. With Tav/Redeemed Durge, they have a great cottage core life together.

[Sormaran]

Isnt Shar straight up says that this is a lose-lose choice. Either sac parents and get rid of me, or save them and i stay. Am i imagining that? So for me this last confusing part about flags interaction seems very intentional and only mistake could be that Devs forgot to edit these checks for the sharran shadowheart.

[CallidusSSM]

Thanks. Definitely don’t want to mess this up. The quality of life her parents would have, especially her mother, it honestly feels like mercy to let them go. Especially since they plead with her to do so

[Louves]

It might be a dev mistake to put the AND NOT there but it also might be intentional. Her parents are what keeps her away from faith in the Shar path and the abandon Shar path. With her parents gone she either becomes Shar's chosen or a travelling Selunite in the epilogue. If her parents are around she will move into a small cottage with them and she won't even mention her faith. Which outcome you prefer depends on your opinion on the gods in general and not on solely morality.

[lendial]

I love that that they put so much effort into character choices when they could of just based it off of approval

[Azylys-]

Can confirm ! My Shart ate the noblestalk (but bugged) and started the trials, I believe I got 3 Nightsong points total (cause bugs), but I got the 3 Parent points. I let her choose and she saved her parents.

[mr_jyggalag]

My girl really is the most overworked one out of the rest))

Thanks for the detailed explanation! It's funny how in my first playthrough I didn't get enough Nighsong points but enough Parent Points, so when my Tav said, "You know the right thing to do, " she saved her parents. Truly, it's bizarre to know how all worked out within the code, so I had little to no bags at all in regard to Shadowheart's quest.

I can't say which ending for her is the best (from the lore perspective, it's open to interpretation to say the least, especially considering the epilogue party and how Shar, it seems, harm less her wound). Both have their ups and downs, but I think I prefer saving parents. In the end, my Tav would support Shadowheart's choice, no matter what she chose.

[Tihyo]

Fantastic and informative video. Been reading through everyone’s takes on the subject, whether the nightsong part of it is a bug or not, and I’m of two minds.

On the one hand, the argument could be made that in order to fully devote herself to Selûne, Shadowheart has to rid herself of any sharran influence (in this case the “incurable” wound). This is in my head, is a justification from a purely religious standpoint. I'll go into more depth on this in a bit.

From a gameplay perspective, this sort of seems like a bug. What are the Nightsong points really? They're points that indicate Shar losing her grip on Shadowheart, whether it be through her remembering her past or the player’s influence, resulting in her “spurning the Dark Lady”, as Nightsong herself puts it. Parent points, in this light, are just are a second set of memories/triggers used to see whether or not Shadowheart sacrifices not just her parents, but her past. When not enough parent points are obtained, from her perspective, she’s really sacrificing the “idea” of her past, represented in the form of her parents - the last direct link. However, the more she remembers of her past, the more inclined she is to save it.

Which choice is right? Like many have said, it’s perspective. Her parents are willing to sacrifice themselves to rid their daughter of her physical pain. This is the noble and “what you'd expect a parent would say” answer. Analyzing the situation more closely, you realize it’s more complicated than that. Shar is really forcing Shadowheart to substitute the physical pain of the wound with emotional pain. It’s not simply grief, it’s guilt. It’s the idea that she could have saved her family and chose not to, making her in some way, complicit in their deaths. This is why Shar doesn't just kill Shadowheart’s parents herself. She wants to continue manipulating Shadowheart in either outcome. Shadowheart confirms this herself by stating Shar is hoping the insurmountable emotional pain will force her back into her embrace. Its the reason Shar actually restores many of Shadowheart’s horrible memories. In this sense, no ending really rids Shadowheart of Shar completely. Like many have stated, it’s a lose-lose.

It strikes me as odd that the devs would intend for high nightsong points to cancel out the parent points. If you turn Shadowheart away from Shar sooner, why should that result in her sacrificing her parent? Shadowheart has no knowledge of her parents while you're gaining nightsong points. The two don't seem to have any correlation, except if you look at it from a religious standpoint. Gaining more nightsong points means you’re pushing Shadowheart closer to fully embracing Selûne, with her first act being saving Selûne’s daughter. Given Selûne’s nature of valuing life and family, it seems counterintuitive that gaining favor with her would result in Shadowheart feeling she has to sacrifice her own parents, unless Ketheric Thorm was right. Ketheric states that when his wife - and later his daughter - died, Selûne did nothing about it, despite them being faithful servants. He states that they're all just pawns of the gods. “Pieces to be moved around, ” I think he says. If Selûne is really so petty as to not wholly welcome Shadowheart because she still has her rival sister’s curse, to me makes me question whether Selûne is even worth following. Lorewise, I don't think this accurately portrays the Moonmaiden, but that's what the effect the nightsong points end up having in regards to the parent situation.

[michasokoowski]

1:20 I think you can also get to this point if you talk with shadowhearts friend about it and she tells you about the hidden passage

[Louves]

Gale also has a hidden points system, that might be worth a look

[joeltacorda]

These series of videos are amazing! Thank you!

[vatiel]

Thanks so much for this video!! You've yet again solved a mystery that had me baffled, it seems I be getting too many nightsong points for her to spare her parents when it is left up to her. The complexity of these scoring systems is fascinating, even if some things don't make sense or are potentially bugged.