Are you of the Non-Elect?

Time-Stamps:
4:05 - Begins
9:05 - Screen Shot of 'The 1689 on the Non-Elect'. 9:33 - Last Paragraph of 'The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith'
9:55 - Doctrine and Devotion (DD) clip begins:
10:10 - We will not AND cannot come to Christ. It's not that you can but don't want to.
12:47 - DD clip
14:20 - God's arbitrary (up to the arbiter) choice. Flowers response: Humility doesn't save: God chooses to save those are humble by grace through faith.
19:23 - DD clip - non-elect are passed over.
19:56 - This means Esau was passed over NOT before he was born (not before he did anything good or bad (contrary to Romans 9))
21:30 - DD clip - Ephesians 1 - election not based on foreseen faith
22:37 - In Ephesians, Paul is addressing 'the faithful in Christ Jesus'. If you're IN Him, you have the blessings. How do we get IN Him, though? Faith, 'when you heard the word of truth'. Paul's battle is regarding Jew and Gentile, not Calvinism vs. Arminianism.
27:33 - DD clip - Romans 9 (groups vs. individuals)
28:20 - The Corporate View of Election includes individuals (must have the OT context)
33:03 - DD clip
33:54 - Why have the Jews rejected their Messiah?
38:13 - DD clip
38:29 - Spiritual Israel is those who have faith. Flowers agrees with DD.
40:11 - DD clip
40:46 - Jacob and Esau, injustice, willing and running, and the meaning of mercy and hardening in Romans 9
45:41 - DD clip
46:02 - God determines that those who do not believe go to Hell: conditional.
48:22 - DD clip - Reprobation vs. Condemnation
48:40 - We're born under condemnation.
49:35 - DD clip - We go to Hell because of our sin, not God's choice.
49:43 - What about Romans 9:11?
51:32 - DD clip - Proverbs 16, verse 4
51:59 - Proverbs in context appear synergistic.
57:54 - DD clip
58:26 - We're chosen because we believe in Him.
59:32 - DD clip
59:44 - The Jews who stumbled haven't stumbled beyond recovery
1:00:11 - DD clip
1:00:20 - We're 'destined' to stumble IF we don't believe. God doesn't destine people to not believe.
1:03:59 - A plea to study both the Calvinistic and the Traditionalist understanding of various proof-texts.

Dr. Leighton Flowers, Director of Evangelism and Apologetics for Texas Baptists, plays a podcast called Doctrine and Devotion, which is two Calvinistic brother teaching through the 1689 Confession on the topic of the non-elect, and "he was triggered!"

Or @soteriology101 on Twitter

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[mrguff]

Thanks for all you are doing Brother! I've been going to Reformed Churches for over ten years and really struggled with the fatalistic undertones of the theology. I read Potter's Promise and know the Lord will use it to help others understand God's provision! God is good!

[sketchbook]

Why do they always say that non-Calvinists believe that it's the person's choice that determines salvation? Nobody says "CHOOSE to be saved." Rather, people say, "Trust in Jesus." "Respond to God." It's faith, not a work, not a will, that saves. It's IN RESPONSE to God's call, not generated by will in the human.

[nathanburgett]

13:18

I get they are trying to be light and funny. However, it's extremely repugnant that they can so malign the character of Jesus and the Father through these ideas then sit and laugh like it's funny. It's not funny. If the veil were lifted for a moment and they could see Jesus sitting in glory, he would not be laughing either. This teaching is not "theologically hard, " it's another gospel that's antithetical to the teaching of Christ. One that reveals a duplicitous god who says he doesn't desire the death of the wicked and yet rejected them before he created them, for arbitrary reasons. One who neither loves nor wants everyone to come. One much like the god created by Judaic traditions grounded in misunderstanding the intent of the law and Israel's election. That they are so casual about something so horrible is disturbing. Such an idea grieves the Spirit of the living God who dwells within. Ask him. Pray they repent and see it. That The Lord of Glory convicts them and shows them, then that they not suppress it. I'm sure they believe it and laughing is the only way to deal with the horror of who they believe God is. To anyone with eyes to see, it's grieving and repugnant though, definity not a laughing matter to say the least.

[helgeevensen]

thanks for this wonderful podcast!... right on target... appreciated very much...

[gregjay]

If I was a Calvinist I would be panicking everyday wondering whether I was elect and have truly come to Christ. Thankfully, I am not a Calvinist and the explanations presented by Prof Flowers continue to confirm to me that I have indeed truly come to Christ because, having heard the Word of Truth, I have come humbly before the Lord and repented in faith.

[karenkelliher]

So GOOD, I'll have to listen quite a few times...so chock full of Bible knowledge/explanation, what a tremendous blessing your ministry is!

[KISStheSON...]

I'm starting a petition to bring the intro song back!
That song made me happy! :)

[DeborahAPeters]

So good!! Hit the nail right on the head

[Liberty-LLama]

If the only option is Calvinism I side with Thomas Jefferson.

"It would be more pardonable to believe in no god at all, than to blaspheme him by the atrocious attributes of Calvin."

[gospelbass]

Leighton, i am very happy of your work since in Finland, we have been facing calvinism and i wasnt sure how to interpret some objections from calvinist consistently. May God Bless you.

[Cuinn]

I have been reading Augustine, and I like some of the things he says. I read "Confessions" first, and now I am reading "City of God". I think the shock of Rome being sacked had a great influence on his thinking. Watching civilization fall to the raids of Barbarians (many of whom were Arian heretics) deeply colored his concepts of how God works, in my opinion.

[richardcoords]

At 19:33, there is a discussion of the non-elect, where the Calvinist doctrine of Preterition is discussed in a way in which Calvinism's non-elect are justly punished. However, as Leighton points out, when considering the *larger picture* of Calvinistic teaching, the punishment of Calvinism's non-elect is completely unjust. Calvinists wish to portray the matter as God just leaving the non-elect alone. That's where Calvinists are being tricky, because they know full well that they also teach that God decreed "whatsoever comes to pass, " including the fallen, helpless and hopeless environment in which they are born. Calvinists want to hide that part, when giving you the sugar-coated version of Preterition.

[benfarnsworth]

1 Samuel 23:10-13 clearly shows that God can foreknow something without it coming to pass. Dr M. Heiser states in his book The Unseen Realm, 'that which never happens can be foreknown by God, but it is not predestined, since it never happened ... since foreknowledge doesn't require predestination, foreknown events that happen may or may not have been predestined.' His point being, in his own words, 'divine foreknowledge does not necessitate divine predestination.'


Love your work Leighton. keep it up.

[danieljdeleon]

First comment!!
Thanks Dr. Flowers for your work!

[livingwater]

love the title of the video
God bless you

[nathanburgett]

16:23

Leighton mispoke. He said those who repent and humble themselves God chooses to Humble. It should be obvious if you're listening with charity. I just want to make sure that someone doesn't misunderstand and think that he's saying that God effectually humbles people in order to save them. But that as Leighton said a couple minutes before, those who humble themselves and repentance and faith God chooses to save. So that there's no Works involved in earning righteousness but that someone humbles himself cries out for mercy and receives Mercy because God has promised such.❤

[EricSmythChrist]

So the whole debate and ministry is whether God pre destined humans to use their generic free will to damn themselves, or whether God did it even more directly than that?

[TimothyFish]

I never knew that Calvinists read calvinism into Romans 9 or John 6 until I started watching these videos. I knew they read it into Ephesians 1, but I blissfully read John 6 and Romans 8&9 without thinking there was anything there that could be taken as Calvinism.

[nikeman]

Yes im a non-elect individual and learned to live with it for the past 20 years.Proverbs 16:4, Matthew 12:31 eos my experience from the age 19-39 eos.

[abelphilosophy]

If Calvinism were true, the logical conclusion is that neither John would have had to preach repentance, nor faith would be necessary. At the end of the day, everything and everyone has been already programmed