Nancy Pelosi on Joe Biden, Tim Walz and Donald Trump

It’s been remarkable watching the Democratic Party act like a political party this past month — a party that makes decisions collectively, that does hard things because it wants to win, that is more than the vehicle for a single person’s ambitions.

But parties are made of people. And in the weeks leading up to President Biden’s decision to drop out of the race, it felt like the Democratic Party was made of one particular person: Nancy Pelosi. Two days after Biden released a forceful letter to congressional Democrats insisting he was staying in the race, the former speaker went on “Morning Joe” and cracked that door back open. And Pelosi has pulled maneuvers like this over and over again in her political career. When an opportunity seems almost lost, she simply asserts that it isn’t and then somehow makes that true. Sometimes it seems like Pelosi is one of the last people left in American politics who knows how to wield power.

Pelosi has a new book, “The Art of Power: My Story as America’s First Woman Speaker of the House,” and I wanted to talk to her about her role in Biden’s decision to drop out and what she’s learned about power in her decades in Congress.

Book Recommendations:

The Island of the Day Before by Umberto Eco

Love in the Time of Cholera by Gabriel García Márquez

The Age of Wonder by Richard Holmes

This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Michelle Harris, Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Jonah Kessel, Emily Holzknecht, Kristen Cruzata and Sonia Herrero.

[cynthiamurphy]

Whoever decided to add a visual component to these high profile interviews, I see and appreciate you and feel strongly that you deserve a significant raise. This was truly exciting and engaging. Thank you.

[HunterC]

This was more engrossing, enthralling than the entire MCU. It felt like she was holding my hand, whispering the nuclear codes, and instructing me how NOT to detonate. We salute you, Master Strategist Pelosi 🫡🕊️

[carolynobara]

What a remarkable woman! She is more consequential than most presidents—and so down to earth. I love the way she goes into ‘street grammar’ saying ain’t, etc. without getting vulgar. She exudes an amazing motherly wisdom that is fascinating. 👍🥰🙏

[sillyhead]

Ezra is among a small number of people that can do justice to the golden opportunity of interviewing Nancy Pelosi. Well done, EK.

[GoodFranklin]

God damn she is a total political wizard. Even in retirement she still single handedly brought us back into the conversation

[basedmillennial]

As a lifelong progressive, I've hod TONS of issues with Nancy Pelosi. However, I must admit the past year or so, she's been crushing it. Stepping down as speaker of the house, got Biden to withdraw from the race & backed Walz as the VP pick. Thank u Nancy!

[marybaker]

I can listen to her talk about her strategies for hours. This was a fascinating interview and would love to hear more from her. Thank you for your service, Speaker Pelosi.

[darcisw]

She is the REAL DEAL. We owe her a debt of gratitude for her great contributions 🙏🏽❤🇺🇸

[jmorrison]

She is sharper now than most politicians are in their prime. Wow.

[CC-uywn]

GREAT interview. Kudos, Ezra.

Speaker Pelosi will go down in history as one of the most effective — if not the MOST effective Speakers. Just wow, getting her book!

[katz]

It's amazing how sharp Nancy is at her advanced age. She set an excellent example for Joe by passing the torch to Jefferies.

[cathyweiss]

The most revealing interview with Pelos I have seeni! She came to life with her love of politics which allowed me to see her in a new light. Thank you for bringing out the best in her. Masterful.

[brianlooksaround]

Excellent interview. I have grown to appreciate and value this woman. A great stateswoman.

[themengsk]

One of the most powerful women alive today. To underestimate her is folly.

[cradio]

Thank you for being there to constantly right the ship and clean up Republicans’ messes for the past few decades, Madame Speaker. 💙🇺🇸

[DoubleOld]

One of the greatest Legislative Leaders of the 20th Century. And the first great woman of power in Washington that was not beholding to a man for her legitimacy.

[sanield]

Nancy Pelosi is an absolute force of nature. I've gained so much respect for her as I've learned more.

[JaneyNickel]

Very impressive woman! Thank you for working so hard all these years for the American people!

[marthabille]

Ezra that’s two amazing interviews I’ve watched this week. Nancy Pelosi and Tim Walz! So much information from both. Thank you so much.

[street_struggle]

Nancy Pelosi putting out a book called The Art of Power is one of the most badass things I've ever seen.