Symbolism # 3: Various Views of Symbolism ( Jordan Peterson, Jung, Jonathan Pageau, Owen Barfield )

It's time for another discussion about Symbolism. Someone suggested that I go into a bit more depth on folks like Jordan Peterson, Jonathan Pageau, Owen Barfield and more. So I also mentioned C.S. Lewis, Hans Rookmaaker, Joseph Campbell, Solzhenitsyn, Dostoevsky and Michael Polanyi. I hope my ideas are clear enough to convey what I was trying to say. I am certainly not finished with the idea of Symbolism. But everyone watching this video should listen to Hans Rookmaaker's What Is Reality? lecture.

Link to Rookmaaker's What Is Reality?

And this page on the L'Abri Ideas Library contains Rookmaaker's series of questions of Art and Culture (and so much more)

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Swimming Against the Stream
Byrne
#meaning #jung #jordanpeterson

[thomassimmons]

I woke up to symbolism consciously in my early 20's viewing the film Deer Hunter.
Since then it has been my driver, taking me into Jung, Campbell, Frazier, Weston, Cassier, and poetry generally. But truthfully, it all started for me in Cinema.

[looqo]

That's a somewhat fair critique of some of Jonathan's followers. I think it's hard for so many to grasp these Concepts because we've been force-fed the idea that there is no meaning to reality.
Some look for a quick mystical fix whenever they want to know the symbolic meaning of such and such. So many refuse to struggle with these ideas and work at understanding it.

[thomassimmons]

This is my second time through, and I must say that I'm glad, as it sparked new thoughts on the subject.
One that shot through my mind was the question of how an effective symbol prompts us to see a thing anew, as opposed to an idol that freezes the thing, and views it the same all over again.

Anyway, just a thought.
Really a top shelf, thought provoking presentation!

[rosafalls]

I remember standing outside a bar one night when seeing a band play, and my friend and I noticed the stars and were wondering about them, and a guy came up and said he had an app that identified the stars. And he aimed his phone at them and told us to look at the exact stars that were above us through the screen! While we stood there looking up without a screen to mediate, he looked up at them through his screen. That seemed such a shocking and sad moment to see and I told him I didn't need a screen to tell me what I saw, nor to put a frame around it and moderate it for me. In a way, that moment was like that painting of a pipe, "This is not a pipe."


And singing at death and funerals....I think this is incredibly important in order to help send someone off well, and to help those who remain. Long ago I was at a funeral of a young man, a Crow Indian, and all the women began to moan and fell on the floor as the priest was talking. The men fell silent, and the sisters, aunts, and mother all began crying and moaning in such a painful way that one would have heard it in Heaven. It was impossible not to be overcome with it and I joined in. And I wondered how anyone could sit through that pain and the vibrations of it and not be moved.


And when one of my grandpas died my grandma appointed all the grandkids to sing at the funeral. We chose the songs. It was interesting to see what each part of the family did. My sister and one of my brothers sang the old Americana and folk type music of the people he would have come from back in the days of barn dances. And we chose one song we thought was humorous and child-like that was meant to make fun of him a little because he never stopped working or moving, "I'll be somewhere a working, I'll be somewhere a My brother wouldn't play for that one because he thought it mocking and disrespectful, but my sister and I thought Grandpa would love that and think it cute and the best one. All the children and old people at the funeral loved that song best of all. Sending someone off is about acknowledging death, and in some cases mocking it, and healing and cleaning the air.


And on life, spirit, breath. Ruach and Numa. If I recall right "whiskey" is from Irish, "uisce, " which means something like, "breath of life." And the name Abel is related to, "Hebel/hevel, " which has to do with breath.


In older times, in Ireland the village undertaker was also the pub owner. Perhaps, why the connection to whiskey, wakes, breath, and death.


And, perhaps, there is a collective unconscious, thus why Americans take the magic out of language with such words as, "Deplane, Detrain." If we say "Alight, " or, "Disembark" it connotes we don't merely go into the ground after a journey, but may alight to elsewhere. In American myth the train symbolizes Death. This is depicted in that Johnny Depp film, "Dead Man." If we only Deplane, we're not going anywhere, nothing happens.


In this time, I think, we should ask why we're putting screens over everything, even our mouths, our spirit. We should not objectify, not idolize the symbols, but why are we covering humans who are said to be made in The Image of God and given the breath of life? By covering and fearing the Unseen we're admitting God exists and may even be contagious. He's not dead yet, judging by how we're acting. And if we don't sing Him through He won't leave, nor will He arrive, which means He will always be lurking around even if people think they can screen themselves from Him.

[dracon]

I hadn't heard of Owen Barfield. I like that idea of opposing Jung's collective unconscious and the forgotten, or neglected collective consciousness. But we never really forget it. It is in customs and traditions, in history, in religions, in morals, in the law. Collective consciousness is everywhere and in sight.
That's why Jung is interesting, he brings to the surface what is not so visible. I have never been very Jungian (when I read it a bit as a teenager I thought he was too esoteric for me), but lately I am beginning to understand better what he meant by the collective unconscious and archetypes, maybe through Jordan Peterson, but in my own experience too. Now It seems to me a valuable contribution to the twentieth century.

[no-one-knows]

Thanks for the Rookmaker link.
The more fantastical a thing is, the better.
I Need more pondering now.

[traviswoyen]

This was a very helpful, clear explanation.

[maximosmagyar]

Very interesting video. I hope you and Pageau get the opportunity to compare and contrast your perspectives on symbolism together sometime.

You mentioned that the Orthodox have a problem recognizing the non-Orthodox as fully Christian at times. Could you explain why you think the Orthodox are wrong about that? I'm guessing you're familiar with the arguments the Orthodox usually use to defend that position.

You don't seem easily offended, but I want to emphasize that I'm try to ask you about this in the spirit of genuine curiosity and respect. This topic can easily touch nerves. If you would like to answer my question, but more privately than the YouTube comment section affords, I can send you an email and you could reply to that.

I have been Orthodox for nearly a year now and I believe it is my duty to love all heterodox Christians as brothers and sisters in Christ.

[sac]

I really appreciate the way you explain this weird stuff, Byrne. Thank you and keep it up!

[clintbrill]

We see the world through two eyes which creates an effect called "parallax". The two eyes we have being only inches apart still capture the form. I can tell when a portrait has been painted from a photograph because the camera only has one eye The reference is flattened out and so is the art work that duplicates it. This is not the case when the artist paints plein-air or from a live model or a still life that has been set up. It is a shame that most of the images that people experience on their devices are giving this generation a false and flat concept of reality.

[Hermitlion]

Subscribe, comment, like.
Just because this man, is a good man. Miss you in AK!

[patrickwagner]

Byrne, have you ever considered doing a video on The Coen Brothers - A Serious Man?

[jamesongaertner]

Hello Byrne, I’m curious what you would recommend reading as a good introduction to Jung.

[HeloIV]

Would you have any recommendations for books to start with regarding Owen Barfield?