The Monk: Worst D&D Class Ever? | D&D Class Analysis

Welcome to DM It All, a new show where we look into old D&D books and tabletop gaming history. In this episode we focus more on the latter as we explore a concept as it evolved over the various editions. In this episode that concept is the anomaly known as the Monk.

Music: Kung Fu Monkey by Devil Music Ensemble

Movie Clips: Wu Tang Collection, Cinecurry Hollywood, drelbcom

Chapters
0:00 Intro
0:50 Class Origins
10:25 Different Paths
22:23 Modern Era
32:13 Final Thoughts

RPG Game Clips: Pixel-Off!, crumps2 (Final Fantasy 1), SaikyoMog (Final Fantasy IV), kalonZombie (Final Fantasy V), OSIRIS (Final Fantasy VI), Xenomic (Final Fantasy VII), veers1138 (Final Fantasy XI), StoneMonkWisdom (Final Fantasy Tactics), Zaric Zhakaron (Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall), Clayton the meh Gamer (Elder Scrolls: Skyrim), Deftpaws (Diablo III), Arx724 (Dark Souls), Timmy H (Dragon Age: Inquisition), Ansive (Neverwinter Nights), Luke Green (Neverwinter Nights 2), v0id19 (Pokemon Yellow), AegisRick (Dungeon Fighter Online), xephnid (Jade Empire), JaggedJim (Disgaea), Xyno76 (Legend of Legaia), Meisio, Louey7 (World of Warcraft)

Other Game Clips: World of Longplays (Kung Fu), StealthGamerBR (Assassins Creed: Unity), Ganker LoL (League of Legends), Various For (Super Bros 2), SetThe BarLow (Splinter Cell), warwolf04 (Soul Calibur II), my055 (Team Fortress 2), FudgeMuppet (Fallout 4), Jon Doedel (Street Fighter II), The BEAST (Street Fighter V), Artificialraven (Xenogears), Stean S (Mirror's Edge: Catalyst), GameKiller346 (Thief), YourMKArcadeSource (Mortal Kombat), MLG Lord (Mortal Kombat X), Force Gaming (Kung Fu Strike), Xuses (Dragonball Fighter Z), MrEdxwx (Lichdom: Battlemage), Shadowserg (Double Dragon), GameKiller346 (Aragami: Nightfall), World of Longplays (Bram Stoker's Dracula, A Nightmare on Elm Street)

[stevekillgore]

For 1e DnD Monks I recomend ....
first of all note that contrary to 7:00 the DM's Guide explains Monks use the Attack Table (To Hit matrix) of Clerics, not Thieves ...
#1 Allow STR and DEX bonuses like every other class, and the superior CON bonuses of Fighters
#2 start a Monk with AC 8, and any DEX bonus
#3A use the somewhat obscure Parry rule (Players Manual pg. 104) - allow a Monk one Parry even while attacking, with or without weapons
#3B adopt the "Tumbling" defense of the Thief- Acrobat in the original Unearthed Arcana
#4 give Monks a "leaping Attack" (Flying Kick) comparable to a long polearm that adjusts their place in the Initiative sequence
#5 I give 3rd Level Monks an equivalent of Spook as an option, the classic demo of their prowess may frighten off would-be foes

[DibbzTheLoner]

2024 Monk is mostly the same as the 5e Monk, but with a significant buff, getting even better damage and regaining all their focus points on short rests.

[NihilistTheGod]

Quivering Palm. That's all I care about.

[bobjones]

I find it weird that in a world of magic and the supernatural, people find it "out of place" that a fighter could use mystical powers to augment their unarmed and physical feats.

Honestly, monks would work better as a fighter mixed with a mage or cleric, using magic or their god to augment themselves. They go unarmed cuz touch is a better way to channel their powers.

For example, using a Shocking Grasps-like power to make all their unarmed attacks deal extra electric damage. They can hit much faster than mages so they can get more mileage out of it.

[andykaufman]

No, it is not a weird class. It is also not the worse DnD Class ever. It is sort of what today would be called a 'multi-class' rolled into a single class. The Monk is created based on the Shaolin Monk, and the idea what if Shaolin ventured West, and a good example of that is Kung Fu TV series, but the fact is, the Monk was, and yes I have researched this, is based on the Shaolin Monk and their underlying concepts and traditions. Sure, American TV, like the Kung Fu is there, but remember this is about Medieval Fantasy, so imagine a Shoalin going to Medieval Europe and wandering around, similar to a plot of the Kung Fu series but set in the medieval.

If you look into the various abilities of the class you can find direct inspiration in Shaolin and other Kung Fu (and martial arts) training.

Notice in this video, as he takes the wrong premise he says 'the Monk was classified as a Cleric for whatever reason'. I just told you the reason above. Because the Shaolin were Monk, viewed as religious Monks, but without Gods, which is true, they are Buddhist, but in fact there are two types of Shaolin, the Religious Monk and the Fighting Monk, and no the Monk class did not make that distinction and you can think then of the Monk, more as the Fighting Monk version, not the religious Monk, as the Fighting Monk's were the ones who would go out and seek involvement in War or possible adventuring, and not the Religious Monks.

Yet, why you still classify them as a Sub-Class of Cleric as they are technically Fighting Religious people, and it would be like classifying the Paladin as a sub-class of Cleric which maybe is what should have been done rather than as sub-class of Fighter, but let's not digress.

Why the combination of Thief and Fighting Man? because the Monk was viewed as possessing Rogue like skills. Perhaps that should have only included Hide in Shadows, Move Silently, Climb Walls, Listening, and not so much Open Locks, or Remove Traps. Yet, think about it. Why are they not skilled in Find Traps. Only removing?

You need to get to the idea behind WHY. The first three are easy, and Listening, which is not a thief skill anymore, but why Open Locks. Really this represents the knack for some of the more odd tricks these monks can do.

Yet, conceptually it was not as supported so we can see in later editions Open Locks and Disarm Traps are removed, but then you can dual class and anyone can do this, so just take a level or two of Thief. Presto you have those abilities.

The point though was to have a Monk, with a little of this and that so it was like a single class that was filled with multi-class flavor, a little of this or that. It is like a fighter in some ways, as the original concept says part Thief and part Fighting Man but a specific type of fighting man

[freakincampers]

The trunamer was the worst D&D class.

[smile-tlin]

Honestly the book of 9 swords was a step in the right direction for all martials.

[knightowl]

I think Druid would be an interesting class to do a deep dive about.

[danielj.tapanes]

Found your channel today and love it already. Could you please consider one of these retrospectives on all the D&D Core Classes? Thank you!

[Lance-Urbanian-MNB]

For those that interest.
me and my D&D crew of the 80's found the Monk character so awkward that we pure out forbid anyone to bring it to the table and in Game monks where turned into Clerics by default.
That solved all potential role fitting disagreements then and there.
To satisfy our hunger to play martial arts type RPGs there were better options that we used.
Later on in the Oriental Adventures we allowed the usage of Monks since there they made more sense.

[cjanquart]

Ran a monk in B2 (The Keep on the Borderlands) and while exploring the swamp area south of the Caves of Chaos, he died from a bite from a giant black widow spider from a random encounter. Yep, gotta love AD&D.

At least our group was more relaxed and used the alternate character creation, the "roll 3D6 for each stat for six characters and pick the best" was popular.

[reliquarium]

In my experience with 3.5 Monk, the class fills a pretty niche role but does it extremely well: Wizard/Sorceror hunter. High Level 3.5 combat was won in the initiative roll. Due to a lot of spell protections not lasting for super long, a lot of the times spellcasters wouldn't have too much crazy stuff waiting on them (except for maybe like the "Heart of" spells or contingencies for freedom of movement or something). The main draw of the monk here is to win initiative and bum rush enemies they think they can stun in round one with Stunning Fist (which they get for free). This is possible due to the high mobility of the class. This is mostly Wizards and Rogues. If they get that stun off, then that's a dead Rogue/Wizard. That's when the Flurry of Blows comes into play. Each one of those attacks can stun giving you 6 chances to try a stun again (7 with haste). The Point of the monk is more like an assassin honestly. Pick a threatening target with a bad Fortitude save and stun-lock it into oblivion. Even if they don't get the initiative, they have high base saves across the board AND evasion. Even if there are contingencies or other spell protections, you just made it easier for your allied spellcaster to identify and dispel the effect to then follow it up with ANOTHER stun. Base level 20 monks get 20 Stunning Fist attempts per day which can be further increased through feats. The 3.5 Monk is pretty much designed just to kill wizards. Either that or prestige into some ungodly multi-class combination that can cast spells. Enlightened Fist and Sacred Fist can pull off some silly stuff and that's with the supplements that didn't just break the whole combat system (Book of Nine Swords). Prestige classes and Spellcasting really was broken lol.

[PTKnight]

Am currently playing a 5e Monk and have made it up to level 9 without going down once, it's all about knowing when it use your Ki for evasion or when to use it for extra damage, and having high wisdom as well as dex goes a long way as both your AC and ki DC both benefit from it.

[SamA-cwbe]

we just finished a campaign on our league night where i played a monk. valley girl, money obsessed monk who legit spent a few entire fights fixing her hair or makeup because an enemy smudged her lipstick. she once broke a nail on an enemies face... she hunted down his entire family after the fight. she like totally reached enlightenment and junk, it turned out to be shoes.

[zippyj.r.]

I just came across this video and my first thought was how my friend outlawed monks because going by the rule book he could make a monk beat dragons by level 5 or 6. So as a DM, no one was allowed to use them.

[biffstrong]

I loved the monk class idea and my favourite TV show at the time was Kung Fu. Always wanted to try Dragon Magazines improved Monk.
The Monk was featured in the Ghost Tower of Inverness and my friend who played him basically used his high running speed to avoid danger.
The improved Monk starts with a natural AC 6 15" movement, d1-4 for one open handed strike at first level and they start him with 2d6 HPs like the Rangers 2d8. His special ability at first level was feign death.
That was still better than the D&D classic monk which was a bit of a thief wannabe.
Thieves needed Dex.
We didn't use Psionics.

[redfaux]

We made Monks awesome. They were Psionic which gave them a bunch of options to be unique.
Their lack of armor made them very quick in combat.

[Sir_Hopp]

In 91 there was also the Rules Cyclopedia Mystic who was basically a max of Psionic and Kung-fu Monk but without as many rules.

[shockerck]

I see posts talking about power and attack and
Its not about that for me. The Monk just does not fit the quasi- medieval Fantasy theme for me. In a Karatur, Far East land- yeah. But not the campaign i play. If you like it, use it. Its not for everyone.

[daniellanctot]

Interesting. I think it is a bit harsh on the monk in general (But I guess that is what is needed to attract views).
Would love a similar analysis on the Rogue (Formerly thief) class.