305 ‒ Heart rate variability: measure, interpret, & utilize HRV for training and health optimization

Joel Jamieson is a conditioning expert who developed Morpheus to give people a smarter way to build their conditioning regimen and improve their recovery. In this episode, Joel dives deep into the world of heart rate variability (HRV), explaining its scientific foundation, how it measures the balance between the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems, the various methods of measurement, and how it can guide healthier lifestyle choices and improved training performance. He explores the nuances of HRV calculation, the impact of aging on HRV, and the roles of genetics, exercise, and other lifestyle factors in this process. He also covers Morpheus, the innovative training tool that won Peter over after his initial skepticism, highlighting its practicality and effectiveness in guiding training and optimizing fitness outcomes.

We discuss:
0:00:00 - Intro
0:01:53 - Heart rate variability (HRV): evolution, science, and practical applications of HRV in athletic training
0:10:11 - Methods of measuring HRV: EKG, wrist-based sensors, and more
0:21:45 - How HRV is calculated from the data
0:25:10 - The role of the autonomic nervous system (ANS) in regulating HRV
0:33:14 - The decline in HRV with age, and the mitigating effects of fitness and other lifestyle factors
0:37:00 - The role of genetics in HRV, the modifiability of HRV, and a comparison of VO2 max and HRV as predictors of mortality
0:43:58 - How aging affects HRV and sympathetic drive, and the importance of spontaneous movement and exercise in maintaining the body's adaptability
0:50:43 - How Morpheus measures HRV using RMSSD and normalizes it to a 100-point scale for easier interpretation The Morpheus system: development, integration with various metrics, and personalized daily training recommendations to optimize fitness and recovery
1:04:45 - The benefits of morning HRV readings for assessing daily readiness compared to overnight HRV measurements
1:1:59 - Why Morpheus recommends using a chest strap rather than an arm band
1:13:26 - The impact of consistent exercise, stress, alcohol, and other lifestyle factors on HRV
1:21:26 - Optimizing zone 2 training with Morpheus
1:26:04 - Using heart rate recovery (HRR) as an indicator of athletic conditioning and the balance between aerobic and anaerobic systems
1:32:35 - The importance of tracking HRV trends over time rather than focusing on data from a given day
1:38:37 - Effect of GLP-1 agonists on heart rate and HRV
1:46:38 - Where HRV belongs in the hierarchy of health metrics
1:51:31 - Parting thoughts

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About:

The Peter Attia Drive is a deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing longevity, and all that goes into that from physical to cognitive to emotional health. With over 90 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including exercise, nutritional biochemistry, cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more.

Peter Attia is the founder of Early Medical, a medical practice that applies the principles of Medicine 3.0 to patients with the goal of lengthening their lifespan and simultaneously improving their healthspan.

Connect with Peter on:

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[PeterAttiaMD]

In this episode, we discuss:
0:01:53 - Heart rate variability (HRV): evolution, science, and practical applications of HRV in athletic training
0:10:11 - Methods of measuring HRV: EKG, wrist-based sensors, and more
0:21:45 - How HRV is calculated from the data
0:25:10 - The role of the autonomic nervous system (ANS) in regulating HRV
0:33:14 - The decline in HRV with age, and the mitigating effects of fitness and other lifestyle factors
0:37:00 - The role of genetics in HRV, the modifiability of HRV, and a comparison of VO2 max and HRV as predictors of mortality
0:43:58 - How aging affects HRV and sympathetic drive, and the importance of spontaneous movement and exercise in maintaining the body's adaptability
0:50:43 - How Morpheus measures HRV using RMSSD and normalizes it to a 100-point scale for easier interpretation The Morpheus system: development, integration with various metrics, and personalized daily training recommendations to optimize fitness and recovery
1:04:45 - The benefits of morning HRV readings for assessing daily readiness compared to overnight HRV measurements
1:1:59 - Why Morpheus recommends using a chest strap rather than an arm band
1:13:26 - The impact of consistent exercise, stress, alcohol, and other lifestyle factors on HRV
1:21:26 - Optimizing zone 2 training with Morpheus
1:26:04 - Using heart rate recovery (HRR) as an indicator of athletic conditioning and the balance between aerobic and anaerobic systems
1:32:35 - The importance of tracking HRV trends over time rather than focusing on data from a given day
1:38:37 - Effect of GLP-1 agonists on heart rate and HRV
1:46:38 - Where HRV belongs in the hierarchy of health metrics
1:51:31 - Parting thoughts

[jasonbrowncoaching]

Joel is one of the best and single-handledly changed the way I looked at conditioning when I was a young coach! Pumped to listen to this!

[TheKSBot]

I’m a 64yo woman with VO2 max measured 39-44 on Fitbit and HRV 25-35, mostly in the 30s. A year ago I had an afib scare and stopped drinking alcohol altogether. At that time, my HRV was regularly in the teens. When I stopped drinking, my HRV slowly climbed up to the 30s and has stayed there. Over the holidays, I had a few glasses of wine and my HRV again plummeted to the teens. I gave up that evening glass of wine!

[casscassy]

Joel Jamieson the Best in the business 🙏🏻

[justinbartee]

Been waiting for Joel forever! So happy you finally booker him!

[AllTheFours]

Yes! Joel is an outstanding guest to have one.

[kevinye]

joel is the goat, using morpheus hrv to determine my training intensity is actually on a different level. when your hrv is high you feel cracked out during your workouts and when its low you can really feel a drop in performance.

[dockjm]

Fantastic podcast. Super guest in Joel. Killed it. 👏

[karlpk]

Peter, you turned me onto Morpheus before this interview. FYI, I do use the Polar H10 with the Morpheus at the same time the Polar is connected to my Concept Rower. To make it work, connect the non Morpheus devices with the ANT designation, and then fire up Morpheus. Both devices will now register your heart rate.

[jasocaz]

I wish this would had been twice as long. I’ve been in a funk lately after my HRV dropped off a cliff during a training block and haven’t been able to get it to go back up for months. Some questions I wish they would have tackled:
-what can you do if your sympathetic tone is overactive?
-what should you do if you have difficulty activating parasympathetic tone, even with breathing exercises?
-what does he think about Firstbeat / Garmin stress data?
-should you skip training if your overnight HRV was lower than usual? Peter came into this pod pretty biased and said he’d never consider this, while it sounded line Joel might have suggested the opposite (but Peter was so “matter of fact” that he didn’t challenge him)
-what blood tests should you run if your HRV is low for weeks or months?

[andreabayliss]

I’ve been a user of the M7 for months now. The difference between the data from it and my Garmin wrist watch are night and day. The explanation from Joel here makes this so clear! Thank you.

[augustgames]

I'm probably too easy to convince, but if this system delivers what you suggest, it's invaluable for me. Just ordered my M7.

[nickflynn]

You booze you lose; one beer close to bed time drops my HRV 20-30 points. I’m good on that

[benberrett]

When Peter says he only uses it for his Zone 2 at 1:19; Can’t the Morpheus strap connect to a trainer or bike computer just like a Polar or Garmin strap and to the Morpheus app?

[DavidScheers]

Excellent episode!
You should also talk to Marco Altini, he's very knowledgeable about HRV

[AlanCarson]

Brilliant guest. HRV has been a, wait for it…

Game changer. A cliche, yes, but true nonetheless.

It’s helped with knowing when I will benefit from pushing harder, and when I’d be better off not.

Recovery and performance are both improving.

[Peter-pvyb]

The Morpheus chest strap itself is worth every cent. It’s far better than Garmin or polar or anything I’ve ever had. I’m using Morph, Whoop, Elite HRV and Garmin HRV stress test combined to make my decision about next days workout in light of my morning recovery. I haven’t lost a single race since. Awesome podcast with awesome guys talking awesome technology🙏🏼🙏🏼

[andydt]

I found the discussion on wrist based HR interesting, I do find that my Apple Watch reads close to what a chest strap does other than a bit of lag when effort changes. I hadn’t realised that Garmin show junk data and Apple screen it out

[craighoover]

It's good to know that there is competition in this field of study and merchandise development.

[simmooz]

Interesting subject. I’m 41 and have recently started training - av resting hr is 47, vo2 61, Hrv average is 31! 🤷