EdCast 141 - Diversifying New York City's Specialized High Schools

The Mayor's proposal to eliminate the SHSAT and rely on students' 7th grade GPAs and scores on State exams has met with both resistance and praise. EdCast examines the effects of these changes from the perspective of the Asian-American community and from a teacher at a specialized high school who welcomes changes in the admissions process.

[jpkoo]

I can assure that teacher who sits comfortably in the chair saying how much he would love more diversity because it’s so challenging to teach only students who are Manhattanites, upper middle class, and actually want to learn and work hard, that once you get even one low level disruptive student in a class, your life as a teacher becomes miserable. Now imagine having a group of these low level students mixed in with high achieving students, who suffers? When that group disrupts lessons by acting out, complaining, arguing, talking, listening to music, throwing things, walking around, bothering others, etc., learning simply stops! You as a teacher then can only try your best to create “fun” lessons dumbing down to their level so as to keep them engaged as best you can and hope every day that they won’t create chaos during the period. That is what we have in public schools now called “inclusion classes.”
Please have that teacher from the specialized school who wants more diversity to switch schools, and come to a high school in the Bronx. He’ll have all the diversity he wants and more. And if he is not being challenged now, come over to our side of education and experience what real stress is every day. In other words, shut up if you don’t know what you are talking about!!!

[arewecrazyyet]

The only way to equitably improve the diversity in these schools is to improve the quality of education at elementary and middle schools across the city. I'll be damned if my son busts his ass to study for the SHSAT and someone else who simply didn't do as well gets his spot. The fact of the matter is that no matter how you try to shove these students in, the curriculum must maintain the same vigor and if these kids cant self-study well enough to do well on the SHSAT they will not do well under the vigor of the special curriculum. If anyone thinks that the curriculum should be dumbed down must be having delusions because the whole reason the specialized high schools confer any advantage is because of the vigor. The accommodated students will also not do well on the SAT because it requires the same amount of self-study discipline required for the SHSAT. These are high schools and the fact is that the rubber hits the road at the SAT. If you do not do well at the SAT you will go to a regular college and the specialized high school education will have been wasted.

[chenkaiser]

“Somebody who never works hard but still get high test score”, WOW are you kidding? I bet that kid must be gifted and deserve to attend that school. Working hard but didn’t get high score VS didn’t work hard but still get high score, you decide to deny the gifted one? What a ridiculous idea!

[RUHappyATM]

Looks like changing the tests to fit the narrative.
Too many yellow faces, let's change the admission criteria.

[edmhie]

It's a culture leave all the responsibility to the school. Parents play a big difference in molding their child's future. That is the difference between Asian and the Black /Latino culture.

[DaveWard-xcvd]

The top 7% at one school might be the bottom 7% at another school.

[TyrekeCorrea]

If the test ceases to exist, no one will struggle physically as a result of taking it, but that means such physical distress would not be evidenced by the exam docummentation, so students with disabilities are that much more likely to be admitted without this deficiency even being noticed, so it's like they'd be tested all the time at a school like this, and pushed too hard.

[CSI]

Acceptance criteria to the NBA needs to change because there's not enough Asian players; particularly Cambodians. These short Cambodians have the capacity to learn how to play basket ball well if the NBA gave them a chance.

[TyrekeCorrea]

10:53 So what's the logic of not basing admission to the specialized high schools on skill?

[TyrekeCorrea]

Students of certain backgrounds just don't get opportunity to develop academically the way others might. It's one thing if members of certain groups just don't reach as far as others, but if they aren't supported in getting that far and it's a matter of systemized procedure that they are kept from getting that far, they won't achieve the heights.

[blackkeysmatter]

What 'statement' does it make when many thousands of Latino and Black students do NOT sit for the SHSAT or apply for admission to a specialized school? There is no diversity in attending the SHSAT or in applications to a specialized school. For the last four years Asian applicants vastly outnumbered Latino applicants. They also outnumbered Black applicants. Keep in mind that the SHSAT is a required part of the application paperwork. To apply you MUST sit for the exam. Asian students apply at over triple the rate of Latinos and over double the rate of Blacks.

[henrygu]

Just got an idea. If admit students according to basketball and soccer instead of academic, it will be more diversified.

[terintiaflavius]

This seems pretty cut and dry. Take test, top scores get in. If there are populations that are under performing target those k-8 schools. Get rid of bad teachers. Get rid of bad principals. If students in 7/8 grade cannot do basic math and English, the teachers failed. Fire them. Get teachers in there who can do it. Students are more important than teachers

[devilsfood]

Why don't they just open up another few specialized schools--- that way everyone who is capable can get a chance to go to an elite school ??

[DaveWard-xcvd]

Equity allows you to reach someone else's potential, not your own.

[TyrekeCorrea]

There's no way Jonathan Halabi means what he saying here. Promoting interracial interaction is not a reason to de-standardize admissions to a rigorous school like this one, and in fact, there is none at all. Students of all backgrounds need to be able to build the skill necessary to be able to earn their way into a school like this, otherwise they won't be able to benefit from what the school is able to offer, and it will cease to be able to function.

[DaveWard-xcvd]

Watching them struggle to find excuses for the racial disparity in elite schools is like watching someone struggle to drown in a tea cup.

[TyrekeCorrea]

Of course the state exams aren't adequate for measuring readiness for admission to the specialized high schools; 10 mention the capabilities of the average student; they measure whether students have achieved benchmarks set for typical students.

[TyrekeCorrea]

I guess my wealth is the support I have and knowing the expectations others have of me, and the beauty of it is that it has power irrespective of race.

[TyrekeCorrea]

Of course you can't enroll all of the capable students in the specialized high schools! There aren't enough seats! All of the high schools in the city have plenty of seats between them, so either you put kids in the regular high schools, you expand specialized high schools and the tools needed to sustain them, or you expand access to the specialized high schools by normalizing them somehow.