EGW & Trinity - Imad Awde

In this thought-provoking sermon, we delve into the writings of Ellen G. White, one of the founding figures of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, to explore her views on the Trinity. While many affirm the doctrine of the Trinity as a central tenet of Christian faith, there is significant debate regarding EGW's understanding and interpretation of this concept.
Join us as we examine her key writings, contextualize her statements, and uncover how her views may differ from traditional Trinitarian beliefs. We'll explore the historical and theological context of her work, discussing how her perspectives shaped and influenced the early Adventist movement.

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[wranglerxx]

Liked, shared, and saved to favorites; thank you for your faithful and diligent service to God and man. God bless and keep you always.

[wranglerxx]

For those learning and seeking to understand what is "Godhead", there is no numerical value to this title; Godhead simply refers to the divine nature of God; so for a clearer understanding of the phrase or term used "third person of the Godhead" or "second person of the Godhead" or "first person of the Godhead" gives the seeker light to who it is the writer is referring to in their point/subject of the Father or His Son or Their Spirit, (which is the working representation of them both; the Father and Son). So, case in point; there is only one true God (the Father) and from Him came His only begotten Son (the Son of God), and They have a Spirit which is Holy. . . the "third person" of the Godhead is a God - He is the representation of the Father through/in His Son to lead and guide us all to Him in the absence of the literal Son which has long since ascended to heaven, and now lives and abides in and with all that believe through His (Christ's) Spirit. When you see it in this light, you see how plain and simple and perfect (complete) God's Word is, and things make so much more sense! There should be no guessing or mystery of who it is we worship and in whom we believe.

[JahBlessd]

Thank you Abba for your clear words of wisdom spoken through men who love you and seek to keep your commandments. Sanctify us by your Word, for your Word is TRUTH.

[jruthbarclay]

Another thing is that EG White came out of the Methodist Church before she helped build the SDA Church. Even then, the Methodists were trinitarian. So it is clear that after studying together, she and the pioneers decided to reject trinitarianism in those early days. Why on Earth would she later back-track to a belief that she had already rejected?

[popeantichrist]

There are 2 that bear record in Heaven the Father and the Son. Jesus is The Conforter

[MichaelAluag]

Brother I'd pushed this subscription button because of your content that The Bible and the Bible alone. Yea that's what I want brother.
If we use other books either it is related to the Bible but it is not a Bible, that is not the base line of our journey. But if what the Bible says it means that's the fact that we have to follow and the truth that we have to know.
I am a Born Adventist but if we base our faith in the writings of Ellen G. White, we have big problems in our path. That's the GREAT CONTROVERSY they're called and the CONSPIRACY begins on that book.

[CollinsOnyango-epkk]

My friend plz you are going to make people to lose because instead of going deep and taking your time to learn you are just picking up wht you found and start to defend becauy you feel he is laying plz plz plz do more research

[marwonlee]

The Bible clearly says that there are 3 that bear record in heaven 1 John 5:7. God the father refers to the son as God Heb 1:8. What are the characteristics of God? The Holy Spirit is called God in Acts 5:3-4. Thomas called Jesus God in John 20:28. If Jesus Christ is not God the son, then He is guilty of blasphemy.

[miyaminlee]

I’m convinced this is the truth as it is taught in the Bible.

[chrisdelong]

Please don’t miss what I am getting ready to say. This is what Adventists believe, and it is Biblical, and it is truth. If you do NOT believe this, you are NOT an Adventist.
“We want the HOLY SPIRIT, which is JESUS CHRIST.” — Ellen White, Letter 66, April 10, 1894. Amen!

[ernestngala]

I live in China and I'm grateful for good sermons which have been so educative spiritually to me for 2yrs now, how can get this book?

[TeresaLarfield]

What most Adventists do not realise is that Ellen White's writings were altered to reflect a trinitarian viewpoint after her death... small changes such as the capitalising of "The Third Person of the Godhead" in The Desire of Ages... this was originally lower case.

[distinctivediyer]

Amen! I am thankful there are people who stand for the truth and stand up for Ellen White's teachings. I'm so tired of people twisting her words, cutting and pasting elsewhere and taking out-of-context.

[seekertruth]

*Ellen White herself encouraged people to use the Bible only.*

*She says, * - *"LAY SISTER WHITE RIGHT TO ONE SIDE; LAY HER TO ONE SIDE; DON’T YOU EVER QUOTE MY WORDS AGAIN AS LONG AS YOU LIVE UNTIL YOU CAN OBEY THE BIBLE..."* - Letters and Manuscripts — Volume 16 (1901), Ms 43c, 1901, par. 9

*She continues, * - *"When you take the Bible and make that your food, and your meat, and your drink, and make those the elements of your character, when you can do that, you will know better how to receive some counsel from God. But here is the Word, the precious Word, exalted before you today. And don’t you give a rap any more what “Sister White said”—“Sister White said” this, and “Sister White said” that, and “Sister White said” the other thing. But say, “Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, ”* (Ibid)

[shaunbrinkman]

Thank you! Excellent job. Very clear, very powerful.

[Carpenter]

Amen brother, this is some powerful stuff.

[Karen-hweg]

Excellent! This was so helpful and provided immense clarity. Thank you!

[sdplaylist]

The brother in the presentation keeps saying over and over he is the Son of God, not God the Son, as if to hammer home Jesus isn't God, and yet in the same book he has been quoting time and again "Desire of ages" Mrs white says this

Christ had not ceased to be God when He became man. Though He had humbled Himself to humanity, the Godhead was still His own. Christ alone could represent the Father to humanity, and this representation the disciples had been privileged to behold for over three years.
DA P663

He is God the Son 100%

[seekertruth]

*The Nicene Creed of A.D. 381 is recited in many churches as a statement of faith of the Christian Church.*

*In an anniversary address at an American Sunday- School Union as early as May, 1865, Rev. Taos. STREET of New York said:* — *"It is almost. impossible to hold a religious meeting now without turning it into a patriotic one. We can hardly talk about anything without referring to our flag.* A little Sunday-school boy was called up on the platform at an anniversary to repeat a verse of Scripture. When asked if he was ready, he replied, Yes, ' and gave it thus : 'If any man haul down the American flag, shoot him on the spot.' [Applause.] It will not be strange, then, if on this occasion, when celebrating the anniversary of an institution bearing the name Union, —a word so precious at this time, — *we should get the flag and the church a little mixed together."*

*It Is worth noting from the above statement, that THERE IS THIS EMPHASIS ON BEING GOOD CITIZENS OF THE STATE (PATRIOTISM) CONNECTED WITH THE COMPLIANCE OF “RELIGIO-POLITICAL MANDATES AND THOSE WHO DISSENT WILL BE LOOKED UPON AS UNPATRIOTIC.*

*Question:* - *Which common doctrine unites most of the churches in the Christendom today?* - *Answer:* - *It is the doctrine of the Trinity.*

*Pope Francis says, * - *"ecumenism is a spiritual process rooted in the trinity."*

*“This movement toward unity is called "ecumenical." Those belong to it who invoke the Triune God”* - Second Vatican Council, DECREE ON ECUMENISM Introduction, par.2 (Given in Rome at St. Peter's, November 21, 1964)

*Pope Benedict XVI, May 3, 2008, states, * - *"the SOLIDARITY that binds the human family... must however always be placed within the horizon of the mysterious life of the Triune God, in whom we perceive an ineffable love shared by equal, though nonetheless distinct, Persons."*

*Clearly, the pope's vision for that "global solidarity" of "the new world order" will "flow from the mystery of the trinity."*

*The "Global Christian Forum"* - *states that to be part of their ecumenical movement, you need to "confess the triune god"*

*Rick Warren states, * - *"We are on the same team ... When you talk about Pentecostals, charismatics, evangelicals, fundamentalists, Catholics, Methodist, Baptist, Presbyterian, on and on, they would all say we believe in the Trinity."*

*A Discussion with Ganoune Diop, Director of the Public Affairs and Religious Liberty Department, Seventh-day Adventist Church With: Ganoune DiopBerkley Center Profile, August 28, 2020.* - *We [SDA] belong to the family of Christians who confess the Trinitarian God.*

*George W. Reid says, * - *“…Seventh-day Adventists are IN HARMONY with the great creedal statements of Christendom, including the Apostles' Creed, (Nicea AD-325), and the additional definition of faith concerning the Holy Spirit as reached in Constantinople AD-381."* (George W. Reid, A brief review of the history and doctrines of the SDA church.)

*Even Freemasons base their teachings on a trinity* - *"No doctrine is more fundamental or more emphasized in Freemasonry than that of the Trinity."*

*The Emperors Gratian, Valentinian, and Theodosius to the people of the City of Constantinople.* *THE CODE OF OUR LORD THE MOST SACRED EMPEROR JUSTINIAN SECOND EDITION. BOOK 1. TITLE 1.* - *”We desire that all peoples subject to Our benign Empire shall live under the same religion that the Divine Peter, the Apostle, gave to the Romans, and which the said religion declares was introduced by himself, and which it is well known that the Pontiff Damascus, and Peter, Bishop of Alexandria, a man of apostolic sanctity, embraced; that is to say, in accordance with the rules of apostolic discipline and the evangelical doctrine, we should believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit constitute a single Deity, endowed with equal majesty, and united in the Holy Trinity.”*

*In the fifth Council of Toledo, can. 3d, the " Holy Fathers" says:* — *"We, the Holy Council, promulge this sentence pleasing to God, that whosoever hereafter shall succeed to the kingdom, shall not mount to the throne till he hath sworn among others to permit no man to live in his kingdom who is not a Catholic. And if, after he has taken the reins of government, he shall violate this, let him be anathema maranatha in the sight of the eternal God, and become fuel for the eternal fire."*

*GIBBON says, * - *"We authorise the followers of this [Trinity] doctrine to assume the title of Catholic Christians:* and as we judge that all others are extravagant madmen, *we brand thorn with the infamous name of heretics, and declare that their conventicles shall no longer usurp the respectable appellation of churches. Besides the condemnation of divine justice, they must expect to suffer the severe penalties which our authority, guided by heavenly wisdom, shall think proper to inflict upon them."* — *Gibbon’s Rome, chap. 27.*

*The preface to historian Edward Gibbons’ History of Christianity sums up the Greek influence on the adoption of the Trinity doctrine by stating:* - *“If Paganism was conquered by Christianity, it is equally true that Christianity was corrupted by Paganism. The pure Deism [basic religion, in this context] of the first Christians … was changed, by the Church of Rome, into the incomprehensible dogma of the trinity. Many of the pagan tenets, invented by the Egyptians and idealized by Plato, were retained as being worthy of belief”* - *(1883, p. xvi).*

*Let us read what the Catholic Church says to Protestants:* - *“Our opponents sometimes claim that no belief should be held dogmatically which is not explicitly stated in Scripture but the Protestant churches have themselves accepted such dogmas as the Trinity for which there is no such precise authority in the Gospels....”* - The Catholic Church's New Dogma: The Assumption of Mary By Graham Green, LIFE, Oct.30, 1951

*“In order to articulate the dogma of the Trinity, the Church had to develop her own terminology with the help of certain notions of philosophical origin:* "substance", "person" or "hypostasis", "relation" and so on. *In doing this, she did not submit the faith to human wisdom, but gave a new and unprecedented meaning to these terms, which from then on would be used to signify an ineffable mystery, "infinitely beyond all that we can humanly understand".* - Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraph 151

*In his book on the Trinity, Catholic theologian Karl Rahner recognizes that theologians in the past have been •"...embarrassed by the simple fact that in reality the Scriptures do not explicitly present a doctrine of the 'imminent' Trinity (even John's prologue is no such doctrine)"* (The Trinity, p. 22). (Author's emphasis.)

*Cyril Richardson, professor of church history at New York’s Union Theological Seminary, THOUGH A DEDICATED TRINITARIAN HIMSELF, said this in his book The Doctrine of The Trinity:* - *“My conclusion, then, about the doctrine of the Trinity is that it is an artificial construct . . . It produces confusion rather than clarification; and while the problems with which it deals are real ones, the solutions it offers are not illuminating. It has posed for many Christians dark and mysterious statements, which are ultimately meaningless, because it does not sufficiently discriminate in its use of terms”* (1958, pp. 148-149). *He also admitted, * - *“Much of the defense of the Trinity as a ‘revealed’ doctrine, is really an evasion of the objections that can be brought against it”* - *(p. 16).*

*Presbyterian pastor an editor for Bible Dictionary by Scaff says, * - *“The doctrines of the Logos [i.e., the “Word, ” a designation for Christ in John 1] and the Trinity received their shape from Greek Fathers, who . . . were much influenced, directly or indirectly, by the Platonic philosophy . . . That errors and corruptions crept into the Church from this source cannot be denied”* - ( The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Samuel Macauley Jackson, editor, 1911, Vol. 9, p. 91).

*John Wesley said, * - *“I dare not insist upon any one's using the word Trinity, or Person. I use them myself without any scruple, because I know of none better:”* - *He also mentioned, * - *“Though I believe the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God; yet I scruple using the words Trinity and Persons, because I do not find those terms in the Bible."* These are the words which merciful John Calvin cites as wrote by Servitus in a letter to himself. *I would insist only on the direct words, unexplained, just as they lie in the text:* - *[Then he quoted the corrupt text (1 John 5:7)]* "There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: And these three are one."

*So, Wesley was acutely aware not to use certain words to teach the Trinity doctrine and yet he still believed in the Trinity heresy.*

*Even SDA Church leaders even admit to the fact that the trinity is simply 'ASSUMED' from the Bible* ... *"While NO SINGLE SCRIPTURAL PASSAGE states formally the doctrine of the Trinity, it is ASSUMED as a fact by Bible writers...Only by faith can we accept the existence of the Trinity."* (Adventist Review, July, 1981 - Special Issue on Bible Doctrines)

[ThePropheticMirror]

A quote that maybe is underrated when it comes to this Trinity, Non Trinity dialogue [debate]

Our policy is, *Do not make prominent the objectionable features of our faith, * which strike most decidedly against the practices and customs of the people, until the Lord shall give the people a fair chance to know that we are believers in Christ, *that we do believe in the divinity of Christ and in His preexistence.* Let the testimony of the world's Redeemer be dwelt upon. Testimonies to Ministers, p. 253. (1895)

It is clear as daylight that in this quote:


1. Whatever SDAs as a body were teaching at that time was objectionable

2. It struck most decidely against the practices and customs of the people

3. Their teaching on the divinity and preexistence of Christ was not the of other denominations.

4. Hence it brood questions on what they believed about Christ

5. Yet they didn't deny that it was not truth or repudiate it.

6. Conclusively, with this single quote, it would only take revisionary history to try convince people that EGW and the SDA body at the inception of this movement believed in trinity or repudiated their original teaching.