Angels & Free Will in Ancient Christianity & Judaism

Piggybacking on a great video by @AslanP about angels and free will.

[bengreen]

I can't help feeling that whatever way you look at it, this raises the issue of how this fits with Adam and Eve in the context of bringing sin into the world and all those

[gpturismo]

This is why there is a distinction between the sons of God in Genesis 6 and Christ, as Christ was the only Begotten son of God. If those are the sons of El, (either the original 70 or the later only 7 that represented the different kingdoms) it makes more sense that they had free agency and introduced evil but that creates more questions than answers with discussing the other sons of God.

[BB-tmsx]

I would be interested to learn more about the Genesis narratives from you.

[christinemerrill]

Do you have any book recommendations associated with this topic?

[neuromantic]

i'm pretty sure the problem of evil is still being debated to this day.

[davidva]

It sounds to me like neither group wanted to take responsibility for their actions & made up something to blame everything on.

[aleczemouli]

Didn't the Tanakh says that God created both good and evil?

[dennydharmasetiawan]

Want to ask.
Is Angels/Malak ( messenger deities) in Other Near Eastern mythology have Wing?.

[neuromantic]

can you please link to the AslanP video? i can't find it on his page.

[francissreckofabian]

If the angels rebelled against God then that suggests free will?

[mikepolioudakis]

Hello. You set up the situation clearly. Your description of the link between the idea of free will among angels (sons of God) with the problem of evil is clear, useful, and true to the extent that I understand. Thanks.

Here is the hard part.

I agree that Jews, Christians, and Muslims differ in ascribing free will to angels or not. You know much more than I do. I could not disagree.

I am not clear from the video about Muslim ideas. That was not the focus of the video, so I am not criticizing. I would just like your short view.

More urgently. You say that Christians ascribe free will to angels but Jews do not, or Jews clearly deny free will to angels. Again, I am sure you are correct. I get the main stream Christian position. You explain it. You do not elaborate on the Jewish position, and I would like to know more. Even a little bit. Does the Jewish position of denying free will to angels relate to Jewish ideas about evil and to Jewish ideas about the condition of the world?

Two needed caveats. One. I do not assume that Jews in general have a position on this issue or that Jews think about the issue much or that, among Jews who do have a position, they would largely agree. I do not assume the kind of unifotmity (univocality) that you often criticize.

Two. I am not Jewish. I assume you are not Jewish. When non Jews discuss Judaism, it is not uncommon for them to slip into views that are tacitly unflattering to Jews or even tacitly antisemitic. I am sure you are not at all antisemitic. I try not to be. I think non Jews can discuss Judaism without being antisemitic. I merely note that there can be a problem and accept that you can successfully avoid it.

Thanks for any comments.

Oh, yeah, love your stuff. Mike

[josefpollard]

It's the Angels everything is a crime, that nothing is to be allowed, and being tied to a chair is the only option (like Aries working for the Coroners office or something). Mans worldly state of affairs never changes, until they're destroyed. Who listens to snakes anyway? What do they know about being human?

[AMcAFaves]

Did you mean "humans from the line of Seth", as you said, or "humans from the line of Cain"?

[Mughicoeurl]

My theory is that the bene elohim were the souls of the Abelites, having been transferred to this time-line but without bodies because they never were born; being transferred because Nahash the sorcerer traveled back in time and did an threesome with Adam and Eve, fathering Cain, and eventually destroyed his original time-line. The bene elohim, not being born and thus not infected with original sin, and thus disowned by God, are still called sons of God, unlike normal humans who are not the children of God. And the bene elohim are the pagan gods, demanding blood sacrifice just as Abel, their father, offered a blood sacrifice, but not knowing good from evil because in their original time-line the fruit of knowledge was never eaten, thus it's not good to follow them.