Good Poetry VS Bad Poetry

[Diathon]

Pointing out all the ways it’s a bad poem, and then challenging students to “fix” the poem would make a fun and entertaining assignment. “I could do it better” is a primary motivator for many aspiring students.

[xxneonx]

Notes

Avoid "bad poems" by:
1. Using your own voice
2. Avoiding "sing-songy" rhyme/ less anticipated cheesy rhymes
3. Avoiding bad metaphors
4. Avoiding cliches
5. USING IMAGERY

Compose "good poems" by:
1. Fresh language good imagery
2. Specific nouns and verbs
3. Uses hyperboles
4. Figurative language
5. Uses subtlety and understatement

[robertallan]

Archaic English is beautiful when you actually understand it, and you need to understand it very well to properly write poetry with it, and you need to apply it thoroughly to the entire work. You cannot have “thou hast” one sentence and a “you” the next.

[cathykrueger]

Having suffered through a relative’s very bad poetry since the 70’s, I understand exactly what this guy is saying.

[eos_rf]

Imagine writing a poem so bad, that it got into books like a counterexample to a good poem 😳

[Robbay]

Honestly I saw the second poem as more of an illustration as the kind of relationship where you give all of yourself to the other person in a way that's ultimately destructive of the self. By the end the author "disappears", like metaphorically they don't exist in an absolute sense, but only for the benefit if another.

But I suppose that also makes it a great poem. There's room for interpretation but it isn't so vague that it could mean anything.

[quantum_immortal]

"The Tiger" by Nael, Age 6
The tiger
He destroyed his cage
Yes
YES
The tiger is out

[one_smol_duck]

I've never been able to wrap my head around poetry. This helps a lot.

Also, I got the sense that the second poem was a lot darker than you presented it here. The poet is physically dismantelling their body in a very painful and graphic way, all to make the smallest impression possible. Finally, they dissolve, spill, and disappear without a trace. (Presumably, so as not to inconvenience their lover with their own pain.)

It's horrifying in my reading.

[Teddy-ezqq]

Good video. Thank you for reinforcing a belief I’ve held for some years, that I am in fact the most important poet of my generation.

[eliasbaer]

The real problem of this poem, in my opinion, it's the innocence of the autor. There is no actual problem with "clichés" or rime or old words; the problem is not having the knowledge to use them right. In fact, using common day language is, somehow, a cliché of today's poetry. Great video!

[awoman]

Great examples of powerful vs. clichéd metaphors. I disagree with your statement that the rhyming pattern has to be consistent. Some of the best poetry I’ve read and written have unpredictable and even inverse rhyming patterns. This makes the poem interesting, and shows mastery.

[markop.]

Its so hard to find good writing tips. Either its highschool level advice or its downright unhelpful mumbo-jumbo. So thank you for this refreshing outlook. The major takeaway for me is the the point you made about clichés and how mixed metaphors are best avoided. Great vid!

[theboneater]

Dude is clearly passionate about poetry, learning to listen to critique and agree or disagree on your own is the most important part of any art critique

[thinkrofficial]

Good poetry is like an onion, layered, bitter yet tasty and when you really tear through them, it’s hard not to shed some tears.

[kennethconnally]

"Read a bunch of contemporary poetry, not just the older stuff they tend to teach in English class" seems like great advice. But "then write like those contemporary poets, e.g. avoiding rhyme and archaisms" isn't so great. Great poets don't just do what they see their peers doing. Choose the style that you can make sing, that best conveys your message, that's beautiful to you. Don't mindlessly use meter, rhyme, or a certain vocabulary because you've been told it's poetic, but also don't mindlessly *not* use them for the same reason.

[eileengarfield]

enjoyed the video! not nearly the point but i did want to point out my appreciation for the line “For you I undress down to the sheaths of my nerves”, the term for the coverings of nerve cells are called myelin sheaths, beautifully incorporated.

[sampierstorff]

No idea how this old Covid-era video I made for my (then) fully-online poetry class randomly decided to pop off (as the kiddos say), but welcome poets, teachers, writers, critics, friends, and foes. Your comments are amazing. And this "Awful Poem" remains awful. :) Poetry is definitely subjective and is often an expression of one's heart and soul . . . but that doesn't mean it can't be written poorly, in a cliche, predictable, poorly rhymed, and painfully archaic way. My job as a writing teacher is to help writers find their authentic voice and write with some conviction using fresh images and language we haven't heard on repeat since the 15th century. I have been teaching poetry for 23 years. I have an MFA in poetry. I was the youngest poet laureate ever appointed in the state of California when I was selected to serve two terms (at 28 years old). As a poet myself, I host the most prestigious poetry slam invitational in Cali every December, The annual, sell-out ILL LIST. I have co-edited one bestselling poetry anthology (More Than Soil, More Than Sky). I have one published collection of my own (Growing Up In Someone Else's Shoes), 200+ poems published in journals and magazines, and I have regularly competed and won dozens of poetry slams. (I even won $3000 once at the Valley Talent Project for a performance poem in front of 1200 people at the Gallo Center for the Arts.) I continue to host open mics and "Write Night, " a community writing event one Wednesday per month. In short, you don't have to agree with me, but the students who do take my class end up becoming much better writers who have ventured on to the venerable Iowa Writer's Workshop and into numerous other MFA programs. You can find me on IG/TikTok @njapoet where I often post writing tips. (But be warned, I also post a lot of fitness tips too because I was a 2x competitor on NBC's American Ninja Warrior) Write. Workout. Repeat. That's my motto. Thanks for stopping by. Metaphors be with you! #ninjapoet. P.s. You can also watch my TedX Talk about my journey to finding a writing/fitness balance.

[magnarcreed]

I still don’t see an issue with writing in older talk.

[tmc]

I appreciate that poetry should be written with style, but when academics talk about poetry they make it a bit pretentious and i find that really off-putting.

[Strange_Logik]

Great video! I never have written poetry, but I love to read it. I used to collect the Everymans Pocket Poet series, but I haven’t thought about poetry in awhile. Your video made me want to get back into it.
One thing I’d add to this, what makes good poetry to me, is the main idea that drives the poem before even one word is written.
From bad poetry, it often feels like someone writing with the goal to write. Good poetry feels like someone sharing a dark secret, someone trying to capture a moment they want to live in forever, or even a moment they can’t escape. Good poetry feels like visiting your grandmother on her deathbed where she tells you the most important thing she has left to say before she closes her eyes forever.
It feels like what you’d say to a lover if you knew you’d never get to hold them again.
Good poetry should feel simultaneously vulnerable and powerful as the poet exposes their true self on the page.