Christof Koch - Is Consciousness Fundamental?

The great challenge is explain consciousness—the inner experiences of sense, thought, intent, feelings. It's what David Chalmers calls 'The Hard Problem' of consciousness. Is our mental life a random accident, solely the product or byproduct of physical brain? Or is conscious awareness deeply special, perhaps revealing hidden realities of how the world works?



Christof Koch is a neuroscientist best known for his work on the neural bases of consciousness.


Closer to Truth, hosted by Robert Lawrence Kuhn, presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.

[Snozcumber]

Consciousness is fundamental to first person experience, and first person experience is all we know

[zerocodercool]

What a wonderful conversation. Thank you!

[clownworld-honk]

Being solipsistic, I'm constantly surprised by the clever people my imagination creates! 😊

[Sierpinskiii]

What we call the physical is just a particular subset of what has been viewed in consciousness. It is undisputed between Physicalists and Non Physicalists that all we have ever known are first person experiential states. From this - all objects, all things have been encountered within consciousness. If there is a truest objective mind independent world - we have never known it and could never know it. It is an abstraction, an idea of floating maths equations with no subjective qualities - even though those very equations are themselves just descriptions of our seemingly overlapping subjective qualitative viewpoints. When we talk of consciousness, we speak of the blueness of the sky, the pain of a stomach ache. How could it be that the brain is separate from this? No matter how deeply and concisely we analyse the brain - the thing we are analysing is a mere appearance within consciousness. It is like the blueness, the pain, etc. How could it be that the forms of something appearing in consciousness (the brain) is the ultimate cause for consciousness itself? We are borrowing something from our consciousness, and plunging it into some metaphysical beyond. Pursuing an explanatory model of how states of the brain generates conscious experience is essentially equivalent to studying how the shapes and movements of flames in fire - caused the ignition. It is a circular abstraction. It is not consciousness happening in my head - rather my head appearing in consciousness.

[AG-yxip]

The truth is that we cannot proof that there’s anything besides consciousness since everything happens in consciousness. Without it experience of any kind cease to exist . So we have a problem here…

[leomdk]

The hardest question of all about consciousness is: "Given the 8 billion human consciousnesses wandering the planet right now, how is it that I am THIS one and not THAT one?" In 1980, a new person was conceived inside my mother, and for some reason, that particular baby was ME, and not you. I am here, and you are over there. I am this consciousness and you are that consciousness.

... ??!

[FutureMindset]

The main issue regarding consciousness is our lack of knowledge on how the human brain operates and the assumptions we make.

Most religions claim that there is a metaphysical explanation for consciousness through the existence of a soul but that's an unfalsifiable claim. As for the study of the brain itself, that's still very much in its infancy.

So at this point, it's probably best to admit that we don't know and continue to try and crack the code...

[Greg-xspy]

“One water molecule is not wet, you take a bunch of them and put them together and then you get wet”. Don’t forget to mix in conscience awareness since “wetness” exists only in the mind of a consciousness being.

[skinnymoonbob]

Consciousness is non-physical, so no law of physics can describe it. Our brain is just like a radio receiver.

[msvalkyrie]

Robert is slowly morphing into Albert Einstein . ( in hair style
at least )

[kallianpublico]

"..conventional science can explain how we get from the inorganic to the organic world.." Proteins and amino acids are all organic structures, but it's a far jump from that to an eating and dying lifeform.
Not a very conscientious guest this time around, but very open and garrulous.

[termsofusepolice]

Koch loses credibility by suggesting that science has discovered how natural processes make inorganic matter "alive". There is still huge debate within the community on this question.

[callistomoon]

Science will likely never be able to explain consciousness, for the same reason that the lens of a camera cannot film itself.

And besides that - There‘s not the slightest reason or explanation to believe that complexity generates consciousness.

[bojanangjeleski]

Such an underrated channel, Robert one day your work will be admired and appreciated much much more than it's now .
Respect !

[bradleyadams]

A good definition of consiousness, is that with a brain. It is true, your eyes do not see, your brain does. Each animal absorbs the universe into their being. It is their universe. It is your universe. It is my universe. Our experience of the universe is internal, and the illusion is that it is external or of the external. Our brains are complex enough to absorb within it the observed vastness and age of the universe. Our brains likely can contain all knowledge which can be learned of the universe, but consiousness at it base is the interpretive aspect animal life has to source energy and avoid being lunch. Our level of consciousness is more complex because our conscious desire to not be the lunch of something stronger and faster has reverted to the subconscious disconcern of such notions because the likelyhood of such an occurance in miniscule. Knowing you are conscious is easy when you compare animals and humans to computers. We all see and experience the world differently because consciousness is diverse throughout the animal kingdom.
Our level of consciousness, has understanding from each of the animals in the kingdom. We can plan ahead like the squirrel and can strategize like a pack of lions. Consciousness exist in the animal kingdom because every animal knows it is real, it's life is real, the universe is real, and that they have to guarantee their own survival. Humans have in addition to consciousness rationality. Therefore, we might be irrational, and for some, irrational all of the time.
It's physics, but the design is something of the universe. You need to understand that the information of the universe, which we represent, allows for consciousness. We are information the universe has created to give rise to consciousness. You need a brain, but you don't need as much uranium to build a bomb. Trees aren't conscious, fungi isn't conscious, you don't need consciousness to be alive. Trees communicate with other trees however. Community is something we have in common with trees, and the combination of community and consciousness with rational behavior is extremely strong by comparison to all the power possessed by the other communities and consciousnesses on Earth.

[xcelgolf]

Consciousness creates the world and the world is Consciousness.

[REDPUMPERNICKEL]

There is no such thing as consciousness
if by 'consciousness' one means something other than a process.

This discussion about consciousness
is like discussing the point atop a pyramid
without first discussing everything beneath it
including its foundation.

What I mean is,
wouldn't it be better to first nail down what a thought is
since thoughts are what consciousness is made of?

[hershchat]

When the Hindu’s invoked “Gyan”, knowledge, as the term for consciousness, they were possibly saying the same thing that Koch and Tunoni are now calling, “integrated information”. I admire their work. However … Their neologisms are so European in their pretensions: completely gain say all work that preceded them, sometimes by millennia, try and rediscover it, and act like they are the authors of it. Like calling Chomulungma, “Mt. Everest”.

[existncdotcom]

.“I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don’t know the answer.”

[jeffhubbard]

Is physics the product of conciousness? Are all scientific disciplines the product of conciousness? Is our 'Reality' the product of conciousness?