Consciousness and Science with Christof Koch

Here he covers a range of issues related to his long-standing, professional interest in mapping the neurological correlates of consciousness. He also relates his own near-death and mystical experiences.

00:00 Introduction
02:58 Neuroscience background
13:23 Integrated Information Theory (IIT)
21:14 Adversarial collaboration
30:34 Near-death and mystical experiences
39:23 Scientific controversy regarding IIT
46:12 Consciousness in unresponsive patients
52:26 Consciousness and quantum theory
57:35 Conclusion

New Thinking Allowed host, Jeffrey Mishlove, PhD, is author of The Roots of Consciousness, Psi Development Systems, and The PK Man. Between 1986 and 2002 he hosted and co-produced the original Thinking Allowed public television series. He is the recipient of the only doctoral diploma in "parapsychology" ever awarded by an accredited university (University of California, Berkeley, 1980). He is also the Grand Prize winner of the 2021 Bigelow Institute essay competition regarding the best evidence for survival of human consciousness after permanent bodily death.

(Recorded on August 19, 2024)

[NewThinkingAllowed]

Statement of Comment Etiquette for New Thinking Allowed

[waynekington]

Keeping the outdated intro music is pure class.

[Jezfletcher-cl]

Christof Koch on NTA??!!! I nearly fell off my chair. Kudos to Koch for going where the evidence leads. Great conversation!

[RH-yxje]

Jeffrey Mishlove thank you for all that you do I have enjoyed your shows for many years. I wouldn’t be who I am today without you, my horizons have been expanded while enjoying the beauty of self discovery. So from one soul to another with all of my being I say thank you thank you thank you so very much.

[S.C-]

Everyone from IIT Giulio Tononi to Christof is interesting enough to listen him and learn a lot of new things. Thanks for sharing.

[padraigomeara]

I think it very indicative of where the arena of consciousness research and appreciation of the broader conceptions of consciousness are going when individuals such as Christoph are engaging so openly in discussions like this.

[brandonb]

Great talk guys, thanks! What is so interesting about these conversations is that people now say, ‘we must start with consciousness’…

Well, I hate to tell you, but EVERYTHING we theorize/build does START with consciousness.

The theory came from a Human…WE are the ‘theory of consciousness’. 😳🤔✌🏼

[deedorothypapineau]

Christof works on a level I would describe as sublime.

[legend_ai_art]

I don't think Koch had a full NDE. I've listened to him in many places, and the way he describes it doesn't quite resemble a real NDE. This seems more like a very strong psychedelic experience. If he had truly experienced an NDE, I believe he would have accepted that the brain is not necessary.

[extavwudda]

Interesting conversation! Mr. Koch's metaphysics are confusing and contradictory to me. He speaks of the primacy of consciousness, in a metaphysical sense. But then when discussing IIT, he reverts to discussing means of telling whether someone 'is conscious' (as opposed to unconscious in a practical sense, like asleep or properly sedated). Does he notice his own sleight of hand here? This is a totally different way of using the word 'consciousness'. This kind of being conscious (or 'awake') is then measured (through IIT) as the amount of information processed. By his own earlier admission, this is not consciousness, but cognition, or perhaps intelligence. It's being conscious OF something. So he is talking about the CONTENTS of consciousness, rather than consciousness itself. IIT tells us what consciousness is DOING for an individual, when a few minutes earlier mr. Koch told us that consciousness is different from cognition/intelligence, in that the former is about BEING rather than doing.

As if I were not confused enough, Mr. Koch then seems to misrepresent (or not fully grasp) the idealist position. Within the idealist paradigm, a 'substrate' is not a prerequisite FOR, but rather a physical projection OF a mental state. Fundamentally, there are no substrates in the idealist perspective.

In all, it seems to me Mr. Koch is still in a process of coming to terms with the implications of his mystical experiences. Either that or he just needs to give things a bit more thought 😊

EDIT: I should not fail to notice and mention how great it is that Kristof is even having this conversations with Jeffrey. Kudos to both men.

[grantlawrence]

I am not really sure where this was going. I thought it was pretty basic. No great insights. Just my thoughts. Cut out half way through.😊

[meiran]

I can be thinking about symbolism *during* a dream but am not always. Things happen and I observe, react, and do things but I can also become a level of aware and think about what is happening - I do not think with a lot of words in those moments though. More so realizations, comparisons, imagery, a word or two, and noticing position in relation to other symbolism in the dream is considered. But I get what is meant, usually we are not running a classic narrative in dreaming, we are acting sort of instinctually in dreams - but is the dream itself the narrative as it flows forth?

Feelings are the experience of the information that the consciousness is encountering at that node/individual maybe.

Edit: Hmm. In dreams the symbology (the angles and relation to things, the objects and details of the dream, all of the elements in relation to one another) are connecting to me deeply in the dream. I am not actually thinking about the symbology the same way that I would if I were awake and thinking back on the symbology. The symbology is thought about during the dreaming differently, as though the meaning is a direct connection(s) rather than a verbalized analysis. A dream of a fish in a cup means precisely what it means to the individual during the dream and then later, when awake, the individual could think and talk and analyze the fish in the cup more. Both moments, in the dream and awake later, illuminate understanding or can even make things more obscure seeming! Both moments, awake and asleep, matter - there is different thinking involved. I feel like there can be an overlap, a similarity in thinking - I have had dreams that involved a lot of thinking, similar to awake-thinking, but not always. In the dream the thinking maybe is a different form of processing, it is more automatic than the more directed thinking patterns of the awake state. Or is it a degree of illusion that the thinking is directed in the awake state? To a degree there is some neurological pathway training that forms and guides thinking patterns. There is symbolism representative of archetypes and symbolism private or individual, maybe there is even certainly symbolism that is a combination of the individual's symbolism and archetypal symbolism.

Perhaps we are all the nut and bolt "parts" (like internal family system parts) of the greater being that is God and we are seeking self actualization within so that we may join cohesively with the without (the illusion of that which is external to the body) and achieve group actualization within God and the symbolism is a part of that thinking that hopes to lead there.

Now I am kind of picturing that film, Inside Out, that shows the emotional parts of Riley the main character. Maybe we are all the parts of something much bigger - the film is simplified, but maybe in reality the process of self actualization and evolution of the greater "us" is much more beautifully orchestrated with a lot of instruments and players at work, both complicated and honed with simplicity, - beings like angels and spirit guides, ghosts, all of the "paranormal" and esoteric parts as pieces of this grand orchestra playing out a symphony that has an ultimate purpose, otherwise it wouldn't *be*. Hmm, but I actually believe that God is already self actualized, the most even(!), so maybe we are just being given some opportunity to play a role which is not fully understood by us... hmm... self actualized is also not the right phrase but a similar phrase for what I am visualizing. Spiritual self actualization - joining with God, becoming that which is our place with God. Very dificult to put into words. Very fumbly.

[Zero-Cool_]

Thank you for this insightful video! You posed such excellent questions and Christof provided an abundance of information in a well-organized manner. I really appreciate your effort in tackling the complex nature of consciousness! ❤