Discussing Dominion with Tom Holland

Tom Holland is a best selling author who's recent book "Dominion" has been making waves in the post-secular crowd because it examines the Christian frame by which even atheists and anti-theists motivate their actions.

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The outro to my videos was written by Matthew Wilkinson

The music at the opening is Russian Eastern Overture, by Rimsky Korsakov.

[thebluesgiant]

I was clicked baited by Spider-Man, but got this gem instead.

[PaulVanderKlay]

Looks like I'll be buying his children's book too! So excited for this conversation!

[daNihilism]

So glad this is public. I have wanted this conversation for years. I have internalized a lot of both of your work. This is a dream. 17 year old me could have used this...

[evanalbright]

Holland: "You're Eastern Orthodox, aren't you?"
Pageau: *giggles* "yuh"

[matthewcruz]

I truly hope the church listens to the yearning within the culture for a return to everything that Christianity once meant to ordinary people. It has spent too long bowing to its own embarrassment and fear of offending people that through the attempt to not be 'weird' or off-putting, it has forgotten the sublime truth and perfect beauty that Christ alone offers.

[carlotapuig]

Holland in the dark and Pageau in bright light? What's the symbolism of that?

[jamieyoung]

PVK is compiling his analysis video as we speak :-)

[conantheseptuagenarian]

what started out slow turned into an excellent discussion. christianity is ultimately a revealed religion but any time someone attempts to make an historical or academic analysis of the religion proper or the new testament they cannot help, it seems, but to apply a kind of inductive perspective to it; thus, paul is no longer receiving revelation from christ so much as he's making some kind of intellectual discovery, beginning with a kind of holy insight within from which he has to explore the depths of his own reason and psychology to unravel the final form of the thought process. while these kinds of perspectives can be interesting, so much holy, transformative content is lost by assuming a position where christianity is just another thought system inductively pursued by the mind of man.

[stephenl]

Wow. Amazing interview. Gold content. What a time to be alive.

[georger]

Dominion is a great book! I learned a lot, and it gave me many new insights. I just started In the Shadow of the Sword, after which I‘ll have read all of Holland’s books so far. Great writer!

[evanduquette]

I'm so glad this exists, as a longtime fan of Holland's books and a new fan of Pageau's. Thanks to both of you!

[greatmomentsofopera]

Fascinating and beautifully articulate guy, coming from such a different place but converging in so much. Brilliant conversation.

[CRAEager]

So good. Loved Holland’s remarks on Bunyan and Chaucer. I recommend Tom Holland’s book on the Persian Wars, “Persian Fire”.

[SpeakLifeMedia]

So good! Could have listened for hours more!

[Nate_Higgins]

Outstanding conversation. Thanks for this

[DerekJFiedler]

Ooo now this is a cool collaboration. Timely conversation. Thank you both.

[janetbaxter]

Great discussion, wonderful book and now looking forward to the PVK commentary! When JBP is able I would love to hear a discussion with all three of you!

[rtm]

Would love to hear you guys do this again sometime. I think theres a lot you guys could talk about and this felt more like an extended introduction to each others ideas.

[ronyeahwiggie]

Dear Tom.... Get a camera and a mic!!
And I can't get enough of listening to him, Jonathan and conversations like this! Although I never heard Jonathan talk so little (relatively) in a video ;)

[RSanchez]

I think the lack of appeal of secular humanism is also demonstrated by the life story of Leo Tolstoy. He rejected the divine aspects of Christ, but embraced the moral teachings of Christ and aimed to frame those moral teachings in a secular humanist context. He also turned it into a movement and developed a following dedicated to his teachings on non-violence. However, his following quickly dissipated and I do think it's because his teachings lacked a central myth holding his movement together.

What's even more interesting is that among the people who were inspired by Tolstoy are Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr. They found his teachings on non-violence very appealing, but reframed them in a religious context, for Gandhi a Hindu context and for MLK a Christian context. And it's exactly as Tom said, this led to near universal acceptance of MLK's civil rights movement and is still admired today, while almost nobody remembers that Tolstoy did more than just write novels.