Heinlein or Asimov? Four Science Fiction and Fantasy Novels, Ranked and Reviewed

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[stpnwlf]

What is amazing to me about Foundation is that Asimov's science of 'psychohistory' is essentially 'big data' analytics - the idea the with a large enough dataset, you can predict trends and outcomes with amazing accuracy, but cannot predict individual actions at all. This has, in the 70 years since he wrote the books, become the basis for business strategy. The fact that Asimov wrote the essence of this in the 1950s is mind-boggling.

[mondostrat]

'The Moon is a Harsh Mistress' & 'Stranger In a Strange Land' are head and shoulders above all the other Heinlein I've read.

[chiconeededthemoney]

Heinlein had several distinct phases. His juvenile phase, his mature phase and his weird phase. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Glory Road, Stranger in a Strange Land, Time Enough For Love are prime examples of his mature phase but you can see the start of his weird phase in some of them.

[mikecrawford]

"Orphans of the Sky" was originally two short stories published in Astounding Science Fiction in 1941 - "Universe" and "Common Sense". At that time, Katie Tarrant was John W. Campbell's first editor, whose primary goal was to purge all depictions of sex from any story printed in ASF. She didn't, however, get rid of domestic violence, which was barely a concept in 1941. Heinlein was writing for the market that was available to him, and the off-stage violence in OotS was unusual for him. Look at Heinlein's powerful female characters, long before other writers used them: "Mary", the skilled agent partnered with Sam Nivens in "The Puppet Masters"; Caroline Mshiyeni in "Tunnel in the Sky", "Peewee" in "Have Space Suit -- Will Travel", the protagonists in "Podkayne of Mars", "Friday", "I Will Fear No Evil", the numerous strong female characters sprinkled throughout his works. Nowhere is there a mousy, male-ruled housewife, and in a number of places women run things outright -- look carefully at Captain Hilda Corners in "The Number of the Beast/Pursuit of the Pankera", House Speaker Wyoming Knott-Davis from "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress", and the Empress of the Twenty Universes from "Glory Road".

[keithrobinson]

I really appreciate the various versions that show as you’re discussing a book.

[davidranderson]

I found your observation about Asimov's writing style interesting and helpful. It also helped me to crystalize why I'm drawn to it. Come to think of it, I am most frequently drawn to writing that is driven by ideas and dialogue, with a minimum of descriptive imagery; just enough to set the stage.

[bobkeane]

Judging Heinlein or any author by today's standards when they are from a totally different era will skew your opinion. Even in some of Heinlein's later work where he is clearly placing women in positions of authority and as leaders he sometimes writes women more from a early 20th century man's point of view.

[stevendorsey]

'The Moon is a Harsh Mistress' was my favorite sci-fi book when I was a kid in high school. "Stranger in a Strange Land' was a close second. I also loved reading Asimov's Foundation books.

[davidchurch]

Heinlein or Asimov? Not even a question. For characterization Heinlein is always a better read than the characters of Isaac's work.

[philipspencer]

Heinlein was of his time. Don’t judge these authors by today’s standards. The two books you mentioned but are missing are potentially his best.

This author was one of my gateways to Sci-fi. Very readable.

[BBsBooks]

I am really happy to see you back here. I could listen to you talk about books for hours.

[joneckerle]

"The door into summer" read it and be glad you did. Cats always know what's right.

[tomspoors]

I really appreciated Asimov's efforts to tie together his Elijah Bailey/R Daneel Olivaw universe with the Foundation universe. His expository style carried along with direct prose made him a wonderfully engaging writer. He was always came across as a humble man but clear about what he believed.

[judewarner]

Much of Heinlein's early output was seemingly aimed at a teen audience, elsewhere someone described it as juvenile, though there may be adult moments. His move towards more thoughtful, even progressive, liberal literature began for me (in the order in which I read them!) with ''Glory Road'' (1963) and was at a peak with ''Stranger in a Strange Land'' (1961). If you haven't read ''Stranger... '', you cannot ''get'' Heinlein.

His best known work, because of the Hollywood movie, is ''Starship Troopers''. Both the book (1959) and the movie (1997) are deeply ironical and are often dismissed as fascist because of the failure to recognise this. And here's the nub: Heinlein tells a story about the human condition, but does not spoon-feed obvious morals to the reader. In ''Orphans of the Sky'', I'm fairly certain that Heinlein is testing the reader's inclination to go along with the portrayal of misogyny, rather than exemplifying it as a normative social construct; it is classic Heinlein.

While Heinlein's work is woven around progressive morals and can get quite raunchy, Asimov's is woven around hard science and potential social consequences. In terms of predicting 21st century hardware, nobody else from that era has come close. Arthur C Clarke made a couple of pretty amazing predictions, including a patent for geo-stationary satellite communications but Asimov's novels and particularly short stories are full of stuff that we now use on a daily basis.

From the end of the 1950s, Heinlein's novels were more literate and much more complex than Asimov's. The latter excited my awareness of science, while Heinlein manifested my liberal tendencies, contrary to most people's reading of him.

[Paco]

New camera man!!! The picture is so much better (that speckle on the old one was killing me). Just fantastic!! So happy for you :-).

[toddbaker]

This is one of the most interesting reviews I have seen. The books were an eclectic mix, but all were very familiar to me. I really want to comment, though, on The Master and Margarita. I'm not quite sure how I came to buy it originally, but it is one of those books that has had a profound impact on my life. I first read it in college--which was more years ago than I want to admit--but I recently bought a new edition, and need to read it again. It is indeed a masterpiece and I would urge anyone to read it. Your synopsis of it was perfect without giving too much away.

[rickkearn]

On Heinlein's Orphans of the Sky, you are so spot on to point out the misogyny and violence against women. I come from the generation Heinlein was writing for, and still, it didn't always sit right with me. I applaud your commitment to giving honest review of subjects that you have no practical time-contextual experience with, that is a very difficult path and rife with peril but you bravely take it on. Much respect. His "Glory Road" is one you might tryout one day, It is in my estimation a truly great adventure story for someone who came from my generation and someone who is himself a patriarch. Cheers.

[palacerevolution]

Love your reviews; intelligent, thoughtful, personal. I realized that had at one ;point, read most of the ones reviewed here.

[gregjacob]

For the most part I've really enjoyed your lists and analysis of your favorite (and not so favorite) SF books. I'm 63 and have read literally thousands of SF books. I have to say I'm amazed that you have not read more Heinlein and especially look forward to your opinion of "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" as it's probably my favorite SF book of all time.
Anyway, enjoy watching your videos even though our SF tastes are quite a bit different.

[leebronock]

Good on you for being 'cautious' about the philosophy that Heinlein promoted. When I learned that he 'hung out' with L Ron Hubbard and participated in "questionable" activities, I began to look very closely at the world view he presented. Check out the book "Strange Angel" about the misfit JPL founding father Jack Parsons. Hubbard figures prominently in the tragedy of Parson's life. Heinlein was 'along with' Hubbard in dealing with Parsons and Thelema.
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