Hunter's Mark is suboptimal in D&D 5E

Hunter's mark isn't a good spell mechanically or mathamatic when you are heavily relying on it. You have better things to cast.

Special thanks to these people for helping me out with art stuff!

Quetzalcoatlus for extra math stuff

Haen for meme pic (thumbnail)

[Adurnis]

The math does look a lot closer at low levels for a ranger combining hunter’s mark with a heavy crossbow or a maul. Crossbow Expert does come out a fair bit ahead, though.

[gabrielrussell]

Overall I agree, but you're forgetting/omitting the utility use: Jim is a recurring villain who always has an escape-plan. Ruin your DM's recurring villain by tracking him down.

[hopeforescape]

fog could, Zephyr Strike, healing spirit, spike growth, Silence, conjure animals, Conjure Woodland Beings, etc

why would anyone concentrate on hunter's mark?

[fadeleaf]

The Longbow has a small niche over a hand crossbow due to it having a significantly higher range and it's an option for Ranger builds who want to use their Bonus Action for something else. Also, Crossbows shoot bolts, so they can't make use of Slaying Arrows if you happen to find any.

However nothing stops your ranger from using more than a single type of weapon.

[theforgottenranger]

Me, who only didn't take Hunter's mark on my Beast-Master ranger because I need my BA: "well this is a fortunate coincidence". BTW Aid is now on the ranger list with Thasha's expanded spell lists, not exactly going to singe-handedly win combat but it is one of my favorite spells and +5 max hp is pretty nice.

[eldoriath]

One problem with your calculations is the assumption of every character being able to take a feat at character creation. I mean, sure. That is the power build way to do it, but if you don't have that hunters mark will be useful for those early levels simply because one cast can be used for a long time.

[gronkfleshcarver]

Thank goodness someone else noticed this! My group said I was crazy.

[XerkDaniels]

He did the math so you don't have to

[jb]

I wouldn’t say that the ranger spell list is bad. Rather, it just isn’t as damage oriented as one might expect from a martial class.

If you approach their spell list with some creative plans though, a lot of the spells become real stand out items.

No familiar? No problem. You’ve got speak with animals and animal friendship. Practically any beast in the game is yours to befriend.

As you pointed out in the flight video, many monsters struggle with combatants that can escape their melee range. Great news for the ranger because they’ve got Longstrider, jump, and zephyr strike all at first level slots. A 15 foot vertical leap onto a roof or tree branch can leave your opponents seeking alternate targets.

[arlopullman]

This is the problem with 'white room' balancing. Hunter's Mark is consistent, direct and available no matter what. It's powerful because not everyone wants to play a custom lineage crossbow expert gloomstalker or insist on a house ruled version of Conjure Animals. You can't kill it with AoE, you can use it with any weapon, and it combos well with the way most fights are set up in game: with a 'boss' and their minions. Most importantly, it doesn't require an additional attack or proc a save. For a half caster who is already MAD this is significant. This also ties in to your point about the druid spell list. Many druid spells are much more powerful on a druid, because they can afford a higher spell save DC.


Another reason I find this reductive is that your examples imply a false dichotomy. Yes, crossbow expert and hunter's mark have anti-synergy when used together against multiple opponents with low health, and those are a common threat. But they have very strong synergy against single opponents with a lot of health, especially ones with medium to low AC. You can simply choose not to cast Hunter's Mark in situations where it isn't as relevant.

I know you titled this video as you did for a reason. You're not claiming that Hunter's Mark is a bad spell, just not always the best choice, and I definitely agree. However, I think you're generalising a little too much in your examples and the claims you make. Hunter's Mark remains one of the best ranger spells, and probably always will.

[tatocraftv]

I like that one of my players uses hunter's mark for his second effect. I like recurring villains so a lot of them have high mobility or teleportation spell, that ranger never uses hunter's mark during the fight but always cast it at the end to track the escape of the villains, i really like that

[jinxtheunluckypony]

The Ranger spell list has so many bangers on it. I can’t believe people seriously upcast Hunter’s Mark when they could be casting Spike Growth or Summon Beast.

[malusvir]

I don't think it's as cut-and-dry as the math suggests. The opportunity cost of casting hunter's mark is a 1st-level slot you could have used to cast something better, no doubt. The opportunity cost for taking a BA shot with crossbow expert is an entire feat, and a commitment to shooting hand crossbows your entire adventuring career. Maybe that's a price you're ecstatic to pay, but it's by no means cheaper than a 1st level slot you can replace daily.

[haenhaen]

Out of curiosity, I did the math for Hunter's Mark vs Conjure Animals(9th-level ranger with a dip in cleric for HW), just to laugh at it even more.

It turns out concentrating on CA and using your bonus action to Healing Word the enemy every turn is 17.9% more effective in terms of damage than concentrating on HM. I assumed the summoned creatures did not have Pack Tactics and had +4 to hit/1d4+2 damage.

[dolphuscolon]

I had t pull out hunters mark after the bbeg ran twice. I think I only had one hour to try to hunt him down at that level but next time I will get him.

[crazy]

I just cast Hunter’s Mark immediately before initiative. This is the forbidden technique that DMs don’t want you to know about.

[sebastianfranasovic]

I’ve been currently playing a Swarmkeeper Ranger in a campaign, and I’ve been genuinely enjoying a lot more once I ditched Hunter’s Mark for other spell options. As a Swarmkeeper Ranger I get for free Faerie Fire, which supports my entire team with advantage against an enemy, and after reaching level 5 I also learned Summon Beast, which I admit isn’t an incredible spell but for me it is genuinely fun in terms of flavor.

You see, why did I pick all these things for my build? I wanted to make a Ranger based around someone which could talk to and conjure spirits from the wilderness, and that’s why I love summon beasts as a spell, plus the damage output at that level is quite decent in my taste. Although I’m still waiting for Conjure Animals to come to me, because that’s where the real fun begins.

[Gingerbreadley]

So it seems good for boss monsters and other high Heath creatures where you will get many rounds. Sure once summoning comes online and other better spells this gets outclassed but early on it seems the best way to deal with a creature that will take multiple rounds to deal with.

[KoboldGamer]

actually running a kobold ranger right now... going to run another one day, current one is a drakewarden (UA). Shortbow right now, but I don't even have hunter's mark prepared, I have zephyr strike, cure wounds, and jump, and I am using all the alternate ranger features.

[midshipcool]

You sir have convinced me, and earned yourself a new subscriber.