The Drydock - Episode 103

00:00:00 - Intro

00:00:36 - Armouring barbettes vs armouring belts?

00:03:24 - Keeping the Dutch Navy at deterrant levels in WW1/2?

00:11:17 - Kaiser class, good/bad/indifferent?

00:18:31 - Encore on radar directed AA in WW2

00:24:29 - HMS Canopus at Coronel

00:29:29 - Early Italian dreadnoughts

00:32:24 - Alternate late-ACW era monitors?

00:35:50 - What parts of medieval history do you re-enact?

00:40:19 - Ships names vs numbers

00:43:49 - AA Cruisers and their effectiveness?

00:46:28 - Most effective ranges of ship-mounted torpedoes?

00:50:40 - Czech armour for British warships?

00:54:31 - What happened to the materials of Age of Sail ships when they were broken up?

00:57:48 - Pace of naval technological change

01:04:52 - Channel Admin

[Cypher]

Im loving the Jutland minatures. Maps and charts get confusing to me, this is the first time Im really able to keep up with the battle, and Im very appreciative of that fact.

[jamesfisher]

Here in the US we have a rather famous reuse of wood from a Royal Navy ship. The Resolute desk was made from wood salvaged from HMS Resolute. The desk was presented to the White House by Queen Victoria and has been used by many Presidents.

[josynaemikohler]

The Czechs inherited steel industy from Austria-Hungary. Skoda was pretty much supplying the KuK army and navy until the end of WW1, kind of like Krupp in Germany, and being one of the largest steel works in the world. Among other things, they were producing the guns for the Tegetthoff class.

[johnhargreaves]

I had in one of my houses in the 70s oak beams that came from a large hotel in Lytham St Annes built in the 1880s when it was demolished the oak timbers of which came from the Furohydrant a 74 commanded briefly by Nelson, this vessel ran aground off Blackpool in the 1880s and the timber particularly the oak used in the building of the hotel. The place where the hotel stood is named The Admiral after Nelson. What comes around goes around; I fitted those beams to create an open plan kitchen diner and was proud to use them. Regards

[kraigthorne]

18:45 The radar was the least important part of the anti aircraft system. The real star was the proximity fuse. Before the invention of the proximity fuse, detonation was induced by direct contact, a timer set at launch or an altimeter. All of these earlier methods have disadvantages. The probability of a direct hit on a small moving target is low; a shell that just misses the target will not explode. A time- or height-triggered fuse requires good prediction by the gunner and accurate timing by the fuse. If either is wrong, then even accurately aimed shells may explode harmlessly before reaching the target or after passing it. At the start of The Blitz, it was estimated that it took 20, 000 rounds to shoot down a single aircraft.[5] Other estimates put the figure as high as 100, 000 or as low as 2, 500 rounds for each aircraft. With a proximity fuse, the shell or missile need only pass close by the target at some time during its flight. The proximity fuse makes the problem simpler than the previous methods.

[scottdrone-silvers]

Drach - in my youth, I gamed with both 1:1200 and 1:2400 naval miniatures. The 1:1200 are a bit big for large-scale battles, even though they are very nice to look at. But I always enjoyed the 1:2400 gaming, as you could use them for both large and small engagements without needing a gymnasium floor at your disposal. Interesting that you use the bases on yours, but useful, I think. We used basswood or balsa for Napoleonic gaming (15mm and 25mm figures), and I would think that would serve the purpose.

A long-winded way of saying that the ability to visualize the battle with the miniatures is VERY useful and very much appreciated. I’m very much looking forward to the next installment.

[thomaschurch]

Like the models for Jutland. It is the first time I heard using different people's voices for different sides/ships. Like that too. It's fun identifying some of them.

[matheuslira]

I loved the miniatures in the Jutland video. They really helped a lot understanding the battles

[sarjim]

The 5.25" gun was easily the longest ranged AA gun of the war. Where they fell down was cramped turrets, too much shell handling, especially having to do fuze setting before loading, and generally cramped turrets. These shortcomings were all overcome with the guns and turrets used on HMS _Vanguard_, but she never fired he gins in anger, and really rarely fired her guns at all. A case of getting everything done right just when it was no longer needed.

[johnhargreaves]

The important thing about the Nimitz class and some submarines is that they are nuclear powered which means that the old boiler problem of burning out has been eliminated and the platform has many years of use from the primary propulsion systems far beyond the old primary propulsion units in conventional power plants. The big power bits were boilers in the past and difficult and expensive to replace. One of the biggest cost of nuclear propulsion is decommissioning so you keep them going as long as you can. Regards

[bjrnarestlen]

As for the question about reusing ship materials, I can attest to every part being reused. I live by the Norwegian coast, and all houses and barns here built before 1920 have ship-planks in them. Often being tared or exposed to salt-water for years, they usually last very long. My parents' house have been dated to 17th century, and when we overhauled that house, we found ship planks everywhere :)

[arb]

"I have a few sets of armor". I'll take "Something not said in 2020 often" for $1000 Alex.

[kaoswylie]

I love the use of the miniatures for fleet battles. It provides a great visual of formations and ship movement that drawn charts connot manage to do. also helps with the sense of scale

[ayayaybamba]

"And hey, you might even get to hit me with a sword"

-Things I never thought I would hear Drach say 7/20/2020.

[elliottjames]

Re HMS Canopus at the Battle of Coronel - I've wargamed this a couple of times under a number of different rules over the years. I made the assumption she could make 17 knots in each case. It's always turned out a bad day for the Germans. I'm not one to fight to the death all ships. Admiral von Spee takes more damage and they don't have anywhere to go apart from a Neutral port in South America, so then end up interned or blockade in Chile.

[tonyk]

I found the use of models as a visual aid very helpful in comprehending the order of battle. Another great idea that sets you're efforts apart from the mundane rehash that is typically found.
I did a lot of wargaming with 1200 and 1250 scale many, many moons ago. They might be unnecessarily large and kind of expensive for the purpose, however. The 6000 scale was, perhaps a bit small, leaving one to kind of strain for the detail to see what ship type/class they were looking at.
IMHO, 2400 scale might be a good compromise. One could see the general "profile" of the different models and discern ship class, eliminating need for painting flags, names, etc to get the general point across. In the case of Jutland, there might even be enough room to paint a white circle on a turret roof as identification, as a "for instance". There are plenty of maps and charts available to cross reference for those that wish to see exactly which ship is which in the respective battle lines, for those that wish to do so.

[OtakuLoki]

Just how effective were breastworks for keeping out the sea, and especially resisting being stove in, or otherwise washed away in heavy seas c.f breastwork monitors?

I was part of a relatively modern force that got caught in heavy seas in 1993. Heavy seas do a number on solid structures when waves crash into them. One of the ships in our formation had their main gun dismounted from the ring by the wave action. Sure it was only a relatively small caliber naval gun, but that's still a damned heavy and solid installation. How can collapsible breastworks even hope to do any good against even moderate seas?

[michaelimbesi]

Drach hit the nail on the head with the part about major technological change. For example, the Arleigh Burke class destroyers of the US Navy have had several different "flights" which are basically upgrades to the stuff inside the ship. The lead ship in the class commissioned in 1991. They are now getting to Flight III, the last ships of which will be commissioned somewhere in the vicinity of 2030 with an expected 45 year lifespan, bringing their expected service end to ~2075. This means that some form of the class will likely be in US Navy service for north of 80 years. This only works because of the ability to just remove old equipment and replace it with new equipment. These ships are basically just what he said, steel wrappers.

[TannithVQ]

I loved those miniatures for the Jutland Part 1 vid. It does make it easier to understand what's going on.

[johnfisher]

Always a welcome thing to see Drach.
I also asked what happened to wooden ships when they were broken up, so thanks for answering that question, .
I do wonder if Sir Drachinifel is a proponent of the all big sword approach to medieval warfare?