Why Genoa Is Graying: Italy's Demographic Decline || Peter Zeihan

While the Italians may have mastered the arts of pasta, wine and gelato, they should have been spending less time in the kitchen and more in...another room. That's right, we're looking at the demographic problems facing Italy, and Genoa will be our example.

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#italy #demographics #population

[LadyMiner]

Showing the lights was the best graphic I've seen for demonstrating the problem visually . Thanks

[coscinaippogrifo]

Fantastic intro, but it should be mentioned that 16% of homes in Genoa are second homes ("holiday homes"), according to the Italian Natianal Statistics Office, in 2023, and usually still empty on this time of the year. I should also imagine that there are quite a few hotels around the centre, so more unoccupied space. However, the issue is absolutely true.

[LucaPhotographyLondon]

I left Genova when I was 30 yo and the simple reason is that it doesn't offer much opportunities for young people. Liguria is the more depressed region in the north of Italy.

[lorestar]

In Italy there are a lot of old people but the big problem is that young people trying to create value are treated like trash with low salaries and criminal job practices.

[tumbletoes]

Hey Peter, my grandchildren are in Genoa. As its school holidays, most families clear off to the mountains or somewhere cooler.
A lot of things are a bit different in Italy... Much economic activity is unaccounted. But the productivity of the factories and workshops is astounding, and the fecundity of the land, mind blowing. I’ve friends in poorer regions who are not being paid their state pension, or the payments get later and later. But the community still holds together, and everybody looks out for each other. The only thing real cash is required for is fuel for the car; everything else can be worked out within a group of friends. This simply doesn’t bear academic analysis.

[Decocoa]

I’m 24 and from england and pretty much everyone I know would love to start a new life in Italy rather than London. The italians can attract a lot of talented and industtrious young people if they choose to index on tech.

[felipe]

I'm an architect from Colombia, here people said that "poor people has a lot of kids and that's why I don't want one" but when I did one assignment I realized that most of the neighborhoods around the uni had a really high average age, +40 and some were in the 50's and there were several houses that were going to be abandoned or the sons or daughter that could inherit were living in another countries and had no interest on those houses, I talked about those findings with people in my family, friend group and even uni, and pretty much everyone dismissed them and told me I was crazy and that people still have kids but most of them are poor, and the thing is that the data says that it's false Information but no one cared

[virgnthermostat]

My cousin just left from there, also there are no incentives to have children pretty much anywhere in the world.

[Ray_of_Light]

Fifty years ago, in Genoa as in other Italian cities, during the summer evenings there were no room left on the sidewalks (pavements) for people to walk, because of the sheer number of people walking.
Nowadays the sidewalks during the summer are empty - or free, depending on the viewpoint. The people filling the Italian towns and cities, haven't been renewed...

[tigna]

A side note: I enjoy Peter's analysis and I can understand what he wants to show by pointing at the house lights. But you know, it is summer and Genova is a sea city. In Italy people have dinner in a range from 7 to 9 PM - after that, people usually get out for a walk, the elders go to sleep. Genova is an aging city but still, Italian cities are not empty - they are mostly the rural villages that are getting emptier and emptier every year.

[NegatorUK]

"Poland can fix their population problem if they get on it" - I think you mean "if they get it

[Conrad-qvfh]

I spent some time in Genoa years ago for work. Most apartments there have shutters, not curtains, but it still looks darker than I remember a similar view from my apartment. Everybody there seemed to do the same stuff at exactly the same time. The main road would be quiet one moment and then gridlocked the next. The buses to work (near the airport in my case) would be overflowing during peak times but almost empty at others. But the company didn't allow you to start work early, because of silly union rules! I eventually ended up sometimes walking the 3km (2 miles) to work or taking a bus into town and then taking the municipal boat past the airport. Every now and then I saw groups of men looking very happy excited and in each case it had to do with some upcoming strike. Efficiency wasn't very important....

[Stilicho]

Children are so important in sustaining our future! My Texas great great grandfather died in 1886. He two wives and 17 children! Raising that many children today would be impossible. Society has changed in so many ways since 1886.

[MondoZombo]

Forget looking at the lights in the buildings just look at the empty sidewalks only 3 or 5 people that I could see.

[thomasjacks]

Having lived in Italy for three years, there's no way Italy can pull off the logistics to re-populate themselves via immigration. This would require a level of execution within the bureaucratic agencies that has never existed and will never exist. "Urgency" is not a word within their government's lexicon let alone the very nature of their bureaucrats. They will attempt to iterate various golden visa concepts, but this will funnel down to the same multi-step hierarchy of agency sign-offs, fees, permits, certifications, legal hold-ups, we're closed all of August and during the World Cup, etc. If it takes, on average, an Italian citizen 9 months to buy a house, imagine how arduous Italy will make an immigration application.

[cianog]

Millions of young Italians have left over the last 20 yrs. Italy needs to attract these people back and make the country a better place to live and have a career.

[michaelpassick]

I know someone that was living in France in the 1970s. He told we there were billboard and other advertisements saying 'Give France a Baby".

[LoriNorwood-ewxd]

Ten years ago in Italy with my kids, I took note of how few children there were out and about. When I asked, the overwhelming response from Italians was “we would love to have children… but we cannot afford it”. There was quite a sense of sadness about it.

[spicychad]

A lot of countries are suffering from this, mostly developed countries.

[rv]

I am an Italian citizen, as well as Canadian. I am considering moving to Italy. My kids are also citizens. Italy is a shitty place to try and make money as there is corruption and and a really old way of living. However, Canada is quickly sliding into being unlivable and I have enough equity in my properties to cash out and live better in Italy. It's a big change though.