Rodolfo R. Llinas - Can Brains Have Free Will?

Free will seems the simplest of notions. Why then is free will so vexing to philosophers? Here's why: no one knows how free will works! Science, seemingly, permits no 'gaps'—'joints' in the structure of the world—in which free will can operate. The brain seems like an all-physical system working according to physical laws. How then a will that's fully free?



Rodolfo R. Llinás is a Colombian neuroscientist and currently the Thomas and Suzanne Murphy Professor of Neuroscience and Chairman of the Department of Physiology & Neuroscience at the NYU School of Medicine.


Closer to Truth presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.

[walkoflife]

Free will is not what you do, it’s what you choose not to do. Regret is the understanding, you chosen wrong.

[rotorblade]

The fact we don’t have free will solves the problem of ultimate justice or hate towards people that do bad things. Nobody is morally responsible there is no justice and there is no reason to hate anyone. That doesn’t mean we should not stop those who misbehave by legal means.

[SubZero]

I am a not native English speaker and might not get everything, but I think they are mixing consciousness and free will. Being aware of already taken decisions (if there is no free will, as everything is determined) is consciousness and not free will. I believe, what we feel to be free will, is the process of accessing different subcomponents of our brain (long time memory, short time memory, scheduler, already made up believes (subroutines (also breathing is a subroutine))) and combining them to program a new subroutine including the process of memorizing this subroutine and accessing it in the future. This processing, accessing and work of multiple subroutines in our brain takes time and is the feeling/Illusion of free will while new subroutines are in creation (learning something new).  There is a test which shows, that consciousness gets the already made up decisions from unconsciousness approx. half a second afterwards, but this does not show us the concentration process of writing routines/subroutines via learning into our brain, which takes time. It also does not show us the process of making plans for the future, which might/ might not be identical to the learning process. Plans/decisions for the future (whom to marry) are programmed subroutines, which are accessed or executed by some other in the future when we need it. The test only shows the process of executing an already made up subroutine (or a small subroutine which does not take much time and/or brain activity to be created and that we might not detect as it is so fast, or we do not know how to measure yet) which we then get aware of.

[ignaziopenna]

If there is an illusion there must be something that is conscious, and there is not consciousness without free will

[caricue]

Why start with the premise that your mind is separate from your neurons? This guy is implying that your neurons have free will, but not your mind. The next guy will say that your unconscious mind makes choices, but not your conscious. The guy after that will say that your brain is totally controlled by the particle interactions. It's almost like the decision to be a determinist comes first, then figure out some way to justify that belief. Maybe the real question is what motivates the original need to deny choice.

[fritzcervz]

Freewill comes from consciousness, the brain is nothing without this conscious freewill.

[soubhikmukherjee]

Even if it turns out to be the case that free will is an illusion, it must be the most fascinating illusion to have.

[craigb]

How is "the brain a closed physical system?" It constantly takes in data from the environment via the senses, and this data affects the anatomy & physiology of the brain. That's not a "closed system" by any definition that makes sense to me.

[hajorm.a]

This is amazing, I always felt that " I'm just an observer " i'm aware of the thoughts, but I have no " control " over them

[joy]

Ignorant man's question. How is there be such an illusion? Seems to me, the very idea of an illusion requires somebody who is to be illusioned. It almost presupposes mind, consciousness with free will etc who is to be the helpless victim of this very grand illusory magic. If all is matter, all should be very straight and simple, not complicated - like something which is real and some other thing which is an illusion.

[callistomoon]

The answer is a simple „it can‘t“. It is delightful to understand it.

[SRAVALM]

Look at the world, our history -- most of you i doubt can comprehend it because you can spend a life time and still know little.

Seeing how people implement the use of the brain with the mind is a mechanism of great creativity.
Man's quest is one in freewill so to seek out the unknown, bringing about possibilities.
Determinism seems like BS when you take into account the amount of effort, discipline, sacrifice required to meet such milestones. Nothing is determined. Even with great Risk, sacrifice, effort -- to accept what is, to accept failure is what?Determinism; then what is success? Because success is not determined. Failure is determined. It's in freewill that we do no accept, rather continue on, seeking, improving, understanding, through trail and error so reaching to heights.

Brains are like cars, depends who's the driver.
Can cars have freewill?
What makes a brain -- Spirit.

[morphixnm]

The belief that everything is physical is not remotely scientific, it is a philosophical position that uses a certain conception of physics to make assertions about the nature of reality. Science does not tell us what things actually are, just that our models, theories and "laws" allow us to manipulate things and make predictions about their behavior. There us no scientific method that tells us what reality ultimately is, let alone what it cannot be.

[sagittariusalba]

Declared in short, but impressevly on spot, thanks! 👌

[maggyfrog]

isn't it funny that a not "totally" free agent still has the capacity to be aware of how neurons are the overlords yet powerless to be truly free? the exact same brain that is the overlord is realizing that it is also not free. how crazy is that?

[Elaphe]

I don't know if my left eye can see my left eye, if my right hand can grab my right hand. If my camera can take a picture of itself. I'm conscious of my consciousness, which is conscious of my consciousnes... Etc.

[detodounpoco]

We are free to feel the illusion of decision

[rebelliocross]

Is it not that only someone with a free will can observe? No free will makes me a robot and i can not make a value judgement of what i see. I would have no consciousness. So, mr. Llinas moves the problem to another level: he puts us (souls) in a machine. Where does that come from?

[simonhibbs]

I think an important concept that helps illuminate this is responsibility. I can only be responsible for a decision if that decision was made based on my memories, personality, knowledge and experiences. In other words the decision must be determined by my mental state as a conscious agent. I use the term determined advisedly, as a physicalist, but I don't think this point depends strongly on physicalism. Whatever a mind is, it's decisions must deterministically follow from it's distinct operations, as against those of any other mind, in order to 'belong' to that mind. This is why I think the philosophical concept of free will, the ability to somehow choose otherwise regardless of one's inclinations, is not coherent, or at least is not compatible with the concept of responsibility. We must ultimately be able to say here, this is why this decision was made, this was the cause, otherwise where does responsibility lie?

[francesco]

I totally agree that is hard to support free will in a full materialist view ... Btw that part when he say "we are slaves of our neurons" is so logically flawed, imho . Or your I is your neurons (pure materialism) or neurons are just a tool for your consciousness . There is no I outside.