The MOUSE model of autism

When you read about autism research in the media, you may not realise that a lot of this research is actually conducted on mice. In this video I'm going to be deconstructing the so-called "Mouse Model of Autism".

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TIMESTAMPS ⌚
00:00 Intro
01:18 The Mouse Model of Autism
05:28 Scientific Validity
06:49 So-called "autistic" behaviours in mice
09:15 How did this gain legitimacy?
10:17 The recent study
14:43 Bloopers

[ashmelville]

All these so called “autistic traits in mice” just sound like a poor lil mouse under extreme stress. As someone whose special interest is mice ( and knows a lot about them and owns a few ), this study is simply messed up and not okay…for multiple reasons. why can’t they just let autistic people be, as well as just let mice be :(

[AurorasWindow]

As a scientist who is 3X neurodivergent (AuDHD, bipolar II) and has been on lamotrigine (the drug used in this study) to treat my bipolar disorder, successfully, this study made me especially angry! Lamotrigine did wonders for me, but it did not cure my autism, obviously!
I have so many thoughts about this particular study!

I’ve also experienced many scientific talks about autism that make my blood boil. It’s like scientists have really no idea what autism is!

[chloechristodoulou]

The really really really dumb part of this is that if they poured this much time and money into supporting autistic people they wouldn't need to find a 'cure'. Everyone doesn't need to be the same, everyone just needs adequate support.

[writethroughtheheart]

I got a job as a lab tech at a local university last year. I can't tell you how shocked I was when I saw "autistic" on a group of mouse cages. WTF? For that reason and a hundred more, I quit at the end of my first week.

[meredithf.]

While watching this, I had so many conflicting thoughts and feelings:
1- You make an adorable mouse, Sam! 🐭 I love your humorous yet intellectual analysis on this creepy article.
2- I feel so sorry for all the mice they are f**king around with for these "studies." The autistic mouse model really blows. 😔
3- It's pretty depressing that so much money is being poured into finding a "cure" for autism. I don't consider autism to be a "severe psychiatric disease" but the funding for this "study" apparently does! 🤬
Thanks for taking a light-hearted approach to a topic that would otherwise be upsetting and infuriating.

[memyselfandchristina]

Love this dive into "bad science!" I'm a sociology researcher interested in the social aspects of science - of which you've identified many here. In general, norms and "schools of thought" are quite powerful as well. Once a norm has been created, say, around "autistic mice" the future scholars build on that, as you said, and don't question the fundamental assumptions at play when you say you are studying "autistic mice". I recently had to have a conversation around this with a very smart, very well-meaning colleague who wanted to study the social implications of an autism diagnosis, and her research subjects were parents of autistic children. I had to firmly remind her that she wasn't studying autism, she was studying *parents* of autistic children. It's such a norm to ignore autistic voices, that she hadn't even thought to question that aspect of her research design. I told her, basically, "It's fine to study parents of autistic children. But you can't say you are studying autism in that case - you are studying parents of autistic children. Since autism has links to genetics, they may be autistic themselves, they may not, and there's all sorts of interesting things to study in that group. But it's not 'studying autism'".

[TheQuantumGirl]

I'm suddenly wondering if getting cats for our mental well-being was a good idea.

Thanks a lot for diving into this unpleasant topic. As an engineer in a sciencific lab, I empathize with the struggle to publish, but it doesn't alleviate the icky overall feeling of those researches, and I fully agree with your POV.

[galion]

Throwing some of my analysis and opinions to the mix, as an autistic bio scientist from a non-neuro field:

They were studying the effects of mutations in a single gene ( MYT1L ) on human neurons in cell culture and on mice. Some behavioral markers in the mice with MYT1L defects were similar to autistic traits, according to their interpretation, which is both very problematic as Sam explains and unfortunately pretty standard for this field. They never call it an "autism mouse model" or "autistic mice" in the paper itself as far as I can tell, but the media surrounding it definitely does, and the paper itself is... Suggestive in that direction. They do admit autism is much more complicated than a single mutation but they reference autism again and again when reporting their results.

Now, many papers in many different fields do some stretching of how relevant their results might be to some high-profile issue. The most common one is cancer, both because it's probably the most high profile issue in biomedical sciences, and because cancer is so complicated that you can actually make a reasonable link between cancer and your research in so many different fields. Most of the time however, such stretching of relevance is best relegated to the discussion section - not the results and definitely not the freaking title of the paper. It's irresponsible at best and a misleading inflation of significance at worst.


Another thing to note is that what was reported as a "cure" in all the crappy news sites is really not, even if this was a clinical trial on actual autistic people. What they did was temporarily reverse some of those changes to measured behavioral markers (that, again, were framed as similar to autistic traits) using an epilepsy drug. It isn't a cure. It's a temporary treatment, like basically all psychiatric drugs. People with ADHD aren't "cured" by taking stimulants, and they don't become neurotypical while under the effects of the drug.

So if people are worried someone will make an "autism-b-gone cure" based on research like this, it's highly unlikely. If anything, we're more likely to see psychiatric drugs with temporary, reversible effects, which might actually be interesting to have. The people we should be much more concerned with are the "in-utero detection" crowd that would enable misinformed expecting parents in electing to end pregnancies of potentially autistic fetuses, i.e eugenics.

[kaworunagisa]

Omg. If I saw the "autistic mice" behaviour in a cat, my first thought would be severe stress response and/or depression, and my second thought would be a physical condition with a lot of pain. How do those "scientists'" brains work? If they have those at all.

[jcrosslin]

It's too early for me to be crying (10 til 7 am in the U.S)

But honestly, since being diagnosed autistic I am SO happy to get to know myself! My 3 y.o little boy is autistic as well, my wife severe adhd and we have another little boy on the way!

I hope so deeply our next child is ND as well. I wouldn't want them to feel alienated from the rest of us but also this:

I almost feel like neurotypicals are the ones at disadvantage. As an ND I lack the ability to filter out irrelevant information. I hear EVERYTHING, and I experience huge pendulum swings between different areas of life. Some are good, and some bad. But I get ALL of it.

I feel like NTs have blinders on that only let them experience life close to "the middle". They don't feel, see or hear anything like as strongly as I do, and therefore aren't experiencing life fully.

The problem is that the world is setup for them, not us. And it's a shame too because my out of the box thinking makes me a Rockstar to most NTs. It's the direct communication they hate me for lmao

Cheers and love and weird autistic high fives from Memphis, Sam ❤

*edited to add that your hair is very nice indeed, and as a bald person I'm quite envious 😅*

[agr]

It occurred to me that if ABA therapy was introduced for autistic mice, it would be called, “Autism Squeaks”

[loganskiwyse]

Just the description of the "model" was enough to make my eye's roll. So much trash science these days that the important and meaningful science gets hidden or dismissed due to the noise.

[edwardlulofs]

Great video, good work.
As a retired professor and scientist, I find all of your comments to be spot on, exactly correct, well deserved.
I have seen, all my life, the conflict of interest in the "publish or perish" academic requirements. As should be obvious to everyone, the quality of work has dropped to nearly zero and no one is reading any papers because they are all frantically writing. Do put on a combat helmet and flak jacket because scientists will not appreciate the truth of your analysis. Scientists pretend to be rational and even tempered because they are neither.
Keep up this important work.
It's the majority in a society, in this case neurotypical, which have the disorder when they characterize minorities as disordered.
There are disorders: the flu, a headache, excessive depression and anxiety. Treat those disorders.
There are many aspects of autism which are very positive. Those are not disorders.
Thank you.

[buttercxpdraws]

You could do a whole series breaking down papers from autism research! There are some real shockers out there, and your analysis is both insightful and very entertaining ✌️💕🌻

[IExpectedBSJustNotThisMuchBS]

Loved all the puns! Yes, please do more videos about autism research. Much of the research bends over backwards to turn strengths into pathologies when it comes to autistic people. Often I’m reading it with my mouth agape.

[Hi_Im_Akward]

Please do more of these. I think the research deserves a critical response. Autism Speaks is funding research into the genetics of autism and I think they also contribute to ADHD research.

Your a great advocate for autism and you put a human face on an otherwise extremely misunderstood and looked down upon nuro type.

[ForeverEden]

'Mutant Autistic Mice' sounds like an alt rock band name or the title of a sci fi novel or maybe graphic novel. It gives a TMNT + Biker Mice from Mars vibe.

[xx]

I looked up differences between mice and rats in human behavioral research. Mice can be "mutated" easier than rats but, as you said, rats are way superior when comparing the similarities to human behaviour.

"Considering the complex and collaborative nature of human social behaviour, these species differences are highly relevant in modelling social behaviour deficits. Particularly in relation to ASD, where reductions in social behaviour and social communication are core symptoms, mice might not be the ideal model given their intrinsic lack of receptiveness to social interaction (Moy et al., 2008, 2007)."
Source: review article by Bart Ellenbroek and Jiun Youn.
They said it so simply. Yet..

[philurbaniak]

👍👍 thank you for a) finding the facts here and b) finding the humour. This whole notion of "curing" neurodivergence makes me feel sick.
Thank you for shedding light on this subject through your research, empathy and common sense 👍👍!

[mrt_]

Why do people have to do this.
Why can't they just accept that everyone is different, that we all have needs, and just accommodate the needs people have, small or big....
Coming up with a "cure" is not the solution, and it makes people feel like there is something wrong with them. That they can't be different.
The world would be very boring if everyone were the same.