Why is a Frigate a Frigate (and not a Destroyer or a Corvette)

Forget the vague speculations about marginal differences in displacement, speed and armament. The real explanation of the difference can only be found in naval history. It amazes me that so few people, otherwise very knowledgeable about modern warships, know how the modern frigate-designation came to be. Most will give you vague generalizations, which won't leave you any wiser, probably more confused.
Watch this video and you'll find out that there is no definite yardstick which will conclusively determine whether a warship is either one or the other. That saves a lot of pointless speculation. It's just a matter of preference and naval culture.

[TribusMontibus]

Errata:
The nice thing, when a lot of viewers watch your video is that you get to make your point. The embarrassing part is that someone will certainly spot your mistakes. So far, I know of five:

14:34 I show a picture of a Russian cruiser, to argue that the Farragut-class, while considered 'frigates' in the USN, was more akin to foreign cruisers. This should have been a picture of a Kynda-class cruiser. But I messed up pictures and showed a picture of Varyag, a Slava-class cruiser. I didn't catch it on the double-check. (spotted by Patrick Bateman)

02:53 I say that large caliber naval guns "fired grenades". (caught by Francisco Franco😏) I'm quite embarrassed about that one and have no clue what got into me to say such a thing. Large caliber naval guns do not 'lob grenades', they fire shells. My best guess is that I got so engrossed in the visualization of the dimensions of large caliber battleship guns to people who might be unfamiliar with them, that I somehow wanted to emphasize that the applicable projectiles are supposed to explode upon arrival. Either way, a mistake of mine, plain and simple.

00:15 Here I mistakenly thought I was showing a frigate afloat. In fact I showed HMS Portchester Castle, which was built as a Castle-class 'corvette' and wouldn't be re-rated a 'frigate' until 1952.
The source of this error of mine is easily explained. That particular clip is from the movie 'The Cruel Sea'. In the book, after the sinking of Compass Rose, the captain subsequently takes command of a River-class frigate. But, in filming the movie, no such ship was readily available and a Castle class-ship was used instead. I spotted this error before releasing the video, but didn't think it clashed with my argumentation. Besides, at the time of filming (1953) she was officially considered a 'frigate'.

03:32 Here I show a picture of the French ship Dunkerque, because I wanted to give an idea of size comparison between a battleship and a cruiser. But it was pointed out to me by a sharp viewer (hugo roulland) that Dunkerque was considered a Battlecruiser rather than a Battleship. I can't really argue against that, based on displacement, main gun caliber and speed. Although I won't take issue with anyone who would label her a 'Fast Battleship'. But, if you are going to make that distinction between capital ships, hugo roulland is right and Dunkerque would be considered a battlecruiser.
My main objective was to give the size comparison and I wanted to use a French ship. To be honest, the picture of Dunkerque I had available was much better than what I had on Richelieu or Jean Bart.

01:09 I show a painting of a 'frigate' on the right hand side. Sharp-eyed naval artist Gordon Frickers spotted that I mistakenly used a picture of a three-masted square rigged merchant ship, instead of a frigate. I'm afraid that this probably came about during a less-than-critical internet search for nice artwork on frigates and I just fell for the general appeal of the painting. To be honest, I never thought it was supposed to be be a painting realistically portraying a specific real-world ship.

[EhrhardRyan]

One year after posting and the algorithm promoted this video to me. Never had I asked this question. Never had I ever wondered. But, I am damn glad I now know. Great video, bud.

[schmiddy]

Something I've realized over time is that ship designation is a communication tool not a binding ship design specification. A ship in it's design phase is not constrained by people's notion of what is a CL or a DD, it's designed to complete a specific mission and the designation comes afterwards to try to categorize it. A great example is the Atlanta class, originally meant to be some sort of destroyer leader which is why it has 5 inch guns and torpedoes. It was later designated as a light cruiser due to its size. It's mission however didn't change, it continued to function largely as other destroyer leaders would, but when standing on the ship you would get a lot of head turning and puzzled looks if you called the ship a destroyer and need to do a lot of explaining every time you mention it.

[runswithbears]

The definition of a modern frigate I was taught in the navy is: "the smallest type of ship that can engage in all 3 major warfare types (Anti-Surface, Anti-Submarine and Anti-Air warfare)."

So your definition was pretty spot on.

[michaelpfister]

I have generally believed that the designations were based on mission and capabilities rather than hard-and-fast rules on displacement or even armaments. This verifies that. Great video and excellent research! Thank you!

[womble]

In the UK Frigates are seen as cheep so despite them being huge its easy to get funding. That's why our last aircraft carriers were called through deck cruisers. Cruisers = cheep. If they could have got away with calling our 80000 ton carriers flat top Frigates they would have done.

[ianraymond]

Good video. I have a simple definition I use to seperate Cruiser, Destroyers, and Frigates. A Frigate is a warship that can provide broad protection to itself and a task group. A Frigate has no or limited strike / offensive capability. A Destroyer adds onto a Frigates capability by having significant strike / offensive capability. Finally, a Cruiser has additional capabilities over a Destroyer in that it has a true C2 capability to manage a task group / task force.

[jm]

This clarifies a lot, thank you. My Dad was the last Captain of HMCS Algonquin, the original V-hull class from WW2. It was originally laid down as HMS Valentine and then given to the Canadian Navy.

[rogerwilco]

I think the names have gotten terribly confusing mostly because the destroyers got so big, they gobbled up all the ship classes that used to be distinct from them, frigates, light cruisers, etc.

[gordonwalter]

Some very good information and detail. The ship in Master & was a "Sloop of War". It carried fewer and smaller guns than a frigate (7th class) because it was smaller. (2 classes down in the Admiralty numbering system). Light cruiser WWII was way more than a frigate of the 17-1800s. It was like a "74" a seventy four (smaller) guns on two decks (3rd class) with about half the crew of a 1st class ship. It was the main open seas fighting ship. Destroyers are treated ok but I'd add that WWII destroyers were often about 300 ft long but post WWII grew to 500-600ft (e.g. Arleigh Burke class). Next Gen destroyers are to be between 500&600ft. Frigates were 300 ft in WWII but built differently than destroyers of the same size. I speculate that was to speed construction and cut cost for convoy needs. At one point Fast Frigates in the US also could exceed Destroyer speed by 5kts. I see no parallel between Littoral / Assault ship thinking...(operate in non-blue sea waters...invade troops and equipment) and corvettes except that corvettes were inadequately designed and built to operate in blue water, even as escorts.

[YouTubeUserx]

I appreciate the obvious work that you’ve done and presenting your videos. Thank you very much. Your delivery is concise. Thank you very much.

[donaldbest]

What a wonderful analysis of the different ship types and their duties through the ages. A few small inaccuracies in your story can be considered as scars on fine leather. I really appreciate the work you put into this documentary. During World War II my father served in the Royal Canadian Volunteer Reserve RCNVR on 4-Stacker Destroyers, Corvettes and minesweepers. On June 5, 1944 he swept mines off Omaha Beach. Thank you so much for your work.

[DavidMFChapman]

Thanks for this. As a boy I used to browse through Janes Fighting Ships, marvelling at the variety of vessels. As a man, I worked as a Defence Scientist for the Canadian Navy. One of our research ships was CNAV Sackville, converted from HMCS Sackville, a flower class corvette. It is now a floating museum (restored as a corvette) in Halifax, Nova Scotia.

[scottt]

My complements on the research for this video. The designations for frigate and destroyer are constantly evolving. I think the newest differentiation for the US Navy is that 1) Destroyers use large missile cells and frigates use smaller missile cells (missiles with less range). 2) Destroyers will carry missiles in two locations (forward and midship) for a higher rate of fire. Frigates carry missiles in one location. 3) All new Destroyers will need to have the Ballistic Missile Defense system which includes the Aegis Combat System but none of the frigates will have this expensive upgrade, and will have a less capable radar system. 4) Displacement is largely irrelevant and has more to do with survivability than firepower (better results on the Total Ship Survivability Test).

[philspencelayh]

My thoughts, in the days of sail it was powerful enough to look after itself unless faced with 1st or 2nd rate ships in which case it was fast enough to leave. These days a frigate is anything someone calls a frigate.

[stratocruising]

At 3:35, your example of a light cruiser is the USS Atlanta. My father served aboard her and was there when she was sunk during the Naval Battle of Guadalcanal. He told me stories of the final hours. Playing a firehose through a doorway into a small arms magazine on fire and cooking off rounds. There was a pile of spent bullets piled against the wall on the other side of the passageway. He told me he regretted every last bite of that mornings breakfast when he really wanted to be as thin as possible..

[merkin_muffley]

Excellent overview, and much needed. Every naval warfare buff will benefit from viewing this.

[esquire]

My first ship assignment at sea in October 1979 was a 4200-ton, 27 Knot, Knox-class Fast Frigate USS Aylwin FF-1081, formerly DE-1081 (Destroyer Escort), commissioned 1971. On 30 June 1975, she was reclassified Frigate (FF 1081). Our primary mission was ASW and Radar/ESM Surveillance. The Garcia-class Frigates were FF-1040 to FF-1051. The later Knox class was FF-1052 to FF-1097. They have all since been decommissioned. The USS Aylwin was transferred to Taiwan in 1999 and serves to this day in the Taiwanese Navy as the Taiwanese frigate Ning Yyang (FF-938). At 15:00, the USS Reasoner FF-1063 is shown in the upper right. The Knox class was armed with ASROC, Harpoon Anti-ship missiles, port and starboard Mark 46 torpedo launchers, and the Sea Sparrow Anti-Air missile launcher, later replaced by the 20mm Phalanx in 1984. The ship had one ASW helicopter that could drop two torpedoes and had dipping sonar.

[otseroeg]

Well Done! I don't feel any smarter, but I still feel as though a veil's been lifted, and at least I have some yardstick to work with. I'm speaking as an enthusiastic but complete ignoramus on the subject, so I got a lot out of it. Thank You Very Much!

[kennedymcgovern]

In my day, as a US Navy Sailor, the roles of destroyers and cruisers started to become very similar. The cruisers had gotten smaller and the destroyers had gotten bigger, to the point where our Spruance class destroyers and Ticonderoga class cruisers were built on identical hulls.

The cruisers were outfitted with anti-aircraft capability in mind, and the destroyers with anti-submarine capability. But both had enough of everything to where we could fill in each other's roles, if necessary. Both ships were used as escort dhips for the carriers and the battleships (Yes, the Iowa class battleships have been returned to service and were in the fleet when I was).

As I was finishing my time in the Navy, the USS Raleigh Burke was completing her sea trials. She was commissioned either just before I got out, or just after I got out. This new class of Destroyer was actually built for both roles, that of the old destroyers and old cruisers, as they had morphed right before Burke entered service.

Now the Arliegh Burke Destroyers do just about everything.

In our day the frigates were the Oliver hazard Perry class. I'm not sure they're even in service anymore, but I am certain they haven't built any new ones in decades.