Neil Gaiman, Abuse, and Scientology

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ABOUT: Rebecca Watson is the founder of the Skepchick Network, a collection of sites focused on science and critical thinking. She has written for outlets such as Slate, Popular Science, and the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry. She's also the host of Quiz-o-tron, a rowdy, live quiz show that pits scientists against comedians. Asteroid 153289 Rebeccawatson is named after her (her real name being 153289).

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[fionatastic.]

There was an interview with Tori Amos, a (now former) close friend of Neil Gaiman, following the allegations that clocks why we suck at believing victims/survivors. She basically says that she did not know the side of Gaiman that committed abuse, but that she is sure she’s met men who treat her differently than other women. Just because he has a kindly public persona does not mean he cannot be different in private. And this doesn’t just apply to celebrities! This is how abusers in your local community probably operate too.

[blupunk]

I continue to be disturbed by the number of people rushing to every comment section about this story to proudly proclaim they "never liked his work anyway" because it just feeds into the "good art = good person" narrative that monsters hide behind. Listen, I loved the stand-up comedy of Bill Cosby growing up and I thought The Cosby Show was one of the funniest things on television in its day. None of that changes the fact that the man was a horrible predator.

[nightfall]

I remember when rock stars trashing their hotel rooms was so frequent that it became standard. Then someone (Axl Rose?) was arrested for supremely damaging the room and the hotel decided to take a stand. I think the band also refused to pay.
The situation meant that the band missed their next gig. My teenage self was mad that the police prevented the fans from getting the concert they wanted and the venue and others from doing their business. My mom had to point out it was the actions of the band, not those hurt or the police, that caused the mess. No one should be allowed to break the law just because others like their art.

[RandyAdamNeu]

To anybody who may be feeling some kind of way about this:

Two things can be true at the same time. He was tragically abused which skewed his view on sex/relationships to the point that he continued the cycle of abuse...AND he's a monster that should have known better.

[shannon]

When the allegations first came out, my immediate reaction is that when Neil Gaiman rushed to call what happened with the nanny consensual, his statement was a confession of sexual harassment, because she was harassed while on the job by a person who she could not avoid on the job. If she is considered his employee, and taking into account that she was financially distressed and relying on him and Palmer for housing and care, it could be considered quid pro quo harassment. Which is illegal.
His own version of “I’m innocent actually” is a confession to a crime.

[anzaia]

You can separate the art from the artist, but you can't separate the artist from the bank account that the money goes to when you buy the art from them.

[Prohass]

The fact that so many of the women were homeless or extremely precarious in terms of their living conditions, meant he had so much power and he utterly abused it

[Ravenwritindesk]

Neil Gaiman saying, "I was obviously careless with people's hearts, " is like Godzilla saying, "I was obviously careless with people's buildings."

[PhinClio]

RIP Mike Rinder, one of the bravest and most effective critics of Scientology, who died of cancer a couple weeks ago. Like Gaiman, he grew up in the "Church." But after being a high-ranking member of Scientology's leadership -- and hurting many people in that position -- he left CoS, at substantial cost to himself (losing his family and inviting years of harassment), and devoted the last decades of his to exposing the CoS and helping those caught inside it to escape. A true hero...and a sign that a bad childhood in the Church of Scientology doesn't necessarily doom you to being an abusive asshole in adulthood.

[KatherineMayWilliams]

When Neil Gaiman left Amanda Palmer and their then four year old son in Aotearoa New Zealand at the start of the COVID lockdowns (early April 2020) she briefly wrote that "some things came to light" that caused her to leave their marriage and him to leave the country. She wrote "I may never be able to talk about it." He wrote on his blog a few days later that their split was "my fault, I'm afraid" and that he had "hurt Amanda very very badly" but any further details were nobody's business. He didn't return to Aotearoa New Zealand, or see his young son, for almost a year. When he DID return, Amanda wrote that their son was afraid of him and hid behind her, not wanting to go near him. NG and Amanda Palmer are now (as mentioned in the article) entering year five of a contentious and very expensive divorce and custody battle in which the extremely wealthy (Amazon-backed) Gaiman is obliterating the fan-funded Palmer financially, all the while some of his (army of) lawyers are attempting to imply that Palmer is somehow responsible for (variously) his behavior and/or that she is responsible for these stories becoming public (to defame him and gain an advantage in the divorce/child custody proceedings.) She posted a short statement yesterday saying she is unable to comment (on the article/allegations) due to ongoing divorce and child custody proceedings, but for people to 'please understand she is a parent first and foremost'. She 'asks for privacy at this time'.

Re: the scientology thing, Gaiman not only grew up in the cult, but he was a recruiter for it well into his adulthood. He married a fellow scientologist, Mary McGrath, and they did not divorce until 2008-2009. (Around the time he was introduced to Amanda Palmer (herself 16 years his junior) and her fandom comprised of mostly young women.) His immediate family are still deeply involved in the cult, his sister Claire being the head recruiter for the "church" in LA. He has never denounced scientology. Mostly he doesn't talk about it, but he has implied in the past that he considers the "church" an "oppressed group" and he is 'inclined to defend oppressed groups'. (Details of his involvement in scientology have been quietly removed from his Wikipedia page for years (and subsequently restored. You're welcome.)

[quiestinliteris]

A lot of apologists don't get that abuse does not require malice. Apathy is plenty. I have no doubt that his account is true, as far as it goes. He probably believed all those encounters were completely consensual - because he didn't care enough to make sure. If you're so emotionally unavailable that you genuinely cannot SEE distress, that's hardly an absolution.

[kerrilea]

Sexully abusing women infront of a child is child sexual abuse.

[gypsyvegan]

I feel like Scientology. That makes sense actually." is a thought I'm having far too often and with increasing frequency 🙄🤦🏻‍♀️

[gcl-yyz]

Gaiman admits he was careless with people's hearts and feelings but omits that he was abusive to their bodies. That tells me everything I need to know about this arrogant, abusive jerk.

[MartijnHover]

All this goes to show that child abuse is something that has repercussions across the generations.

[JaniceinOR]

Insisting on BDSM without a safeword is abusive, in my view. Even if someone agrees to a Master/slave dynamic, they ALWAYS have the right to opt out.
[Edit: anyone engaging in BDSM should always be able to end the activity at any time. This could involve a safeword, a key drop, simply saying "stop", or other ways. As others reminded me below, a safeword is no guarantee and not always usable when in subspace. Please also read the comments of others, below. ]

[dougandmp]

I have been surprised at the NG fandom - that they have not piled on the accusers - they are sad, as a group, but not defending him. Restores my faith.

[DataRew]

As a person who was also raised with the "respect the art divorced from the artist" kinda thought, I can only insist that it's abhorrent. I see what giving money to shitheads has wrought clearly in every aspect of our society, and I will not give my money to shitheads if I can stand it.

[elena_]

Okay wtf having sex in front of your child is negligent and abusive too. Every single detail I've heard is so disgusting.

[covenscribe]

If you liked Niel Gaiman's works I strongly suggest reading the works of Tanith Lee, who Gaiman ripped off many ideas from without credit for years.