Prof Dame Mary Beard - Them and us

Professor Dame Mary Beard, Professor of Classics at Newnham College, University of Cambridge, delivers the Gifford Lecture "Them and us". It is the fourth lecture in the series "The Ancient World and us: from fear and loathing to enlightenment and ethics".

This lecture explores various forms of exclusion and inclusion in antiquity, from slave versus free to women versus men. Can we ever understand how that might have seemed "natural"? And what does it tell us about our own exclusions? Given the drastic disparities in power, wealth and influence that underpinned all ancient cultures, in what sense can they ever be seen as a model of inclusion and "toleration"?

This lecture series explores why the classical world still matters and what ethical dilemmas the study of classics raises (and has always raised). Taking six particular themes, it hopes to show how antiquity can continue to challenge the moral certainties of modernity.

[monicaaparecidaoliveira]

Dr. Mary Beard is fantastic. I do enjoy her lecturers. Thank you Yniversitu os Edinburgh for sharing this rich content.

[Bo_Lew]

1:17:54 "Never talk about slavery with a load of theologians." Brilliant as usual!

[bananensocke]

Thank you for sharing this instructive lecture with the fabulous Prof. Mary Beard - very inspiring and surprising! :-)

[mr]

1:08:57 That’s the prologue! (as Frankie Howerd would say!) Salute! 😅
Excellent lecture! Thanks for letting us see them all. ⭐️

[anaximandros]

4:50 Ngl I'm kind of surprised there aren't more women present because Thucydides said that women were in the crowd for Pericles' funeral oration. It's actually because of this that made funerals one of the few ways Athenian women had to engage with politics.

[YouSilLyAsS]

Sadly nobody asked the question I was burning to hear. What are the ancient Asian civilizations/societies that were democratic in essence but not in name? Could someone just give me basic info or names or books so I could read on the subject? Thank you!

[TsunamiBrook]

At the end in the Q & A :
Women : ask question 1 sentence maximum.
Men : It's my turn to talk *yammer on for 2 minutes and not even ask a proper question*

[jamesneedham]

I think the reason for slavery is simple, necessity. Is it really a coincidence that the abolition of slavery comes at the dawning of industrialism. Even in medieval Europe slavery was really just renamed feudalism. Our age will be damned without question for sweatshops and may even just for crappy underpaid jobs in general as technology makes them unnecessary.

[Transportia]

OMG, why is there *always* someone trying to ask a question who doesn't know how to ask a question!

[barbarareid]

Had I been there, I would have asked about 'sex' and progeny and how slaveholders felt about the role of slaves in the reproduction... process.

[richarddelanet]

Are you sure that Athena isn't really an idea?

[carnivaltym]

My understanding was that property owning, well educated hetaira (prostitutes/independent courtesans) had the same speaking rights as any male citizen, certainly in some ancient Grecian city states and enjoyed significantly higher social standing than mere wives, good only for breeding throughout ancient Greece. Of course, I bow to Prof Beard, but I have read of this in several different sources.

[jstanton]

I would rather watch Mary beard than listen to good music... And that says A LOT

[mostlygreen]

Odd to not refer to metics in Athens. From the lecture you might assume there were only slaves and citizens. Maybe that weakens the hypothesis.

[Pandaemoni]

35:15 I have rechecked sources that state that Roman citizens could become slaves after the 4th century BC. Notably, under the doctrine of the "pater familias" the head of a Roman household could sell virtually anyone under his power into slavery. Even adult children living with their own families were under the control of the pater familias, while he lived. There was an exception for sons to the extent they have been offered for sale as salves and could not be sold three times, but that exception shows that they could be sold off. It is also my understanding that in the later Empire farmers would become "slaves" to local leaders as a way to dodge certain legal requirements (like the requirement that they serve in the army, which didn't apply to slaves and which created the hardship of taking them away from tending their farms for extended periods). I am not sure if Professor Beard was merely speaking loosely or f she was referring to the abolition solely of debt bondagae as relates to Roman citizens. (One of the problems being that Rome has such a long history that trying to compare different eras is often akin to comparing medieval Britain to modern day to, say Victorian Britain...there is a lot of change over time.)

[andywomack]

Say what one will about their brutality and military prowess. They
brought a peace and prosperity that had not existed in Europe prior to
the Roman conquest. In many ways they were as good or better at
Civilization than we.

[Rokiriko]

Fer shure don't take the mic if you cannot speak the language...

[ricardocima]

Finally a lecture without woke drivel. Glad to see that's she's still capable of that.

[bmarsh]

Finally, it’s realistic that military geniuses w/out every need transitory merry go round democracies-none other Napoleon

[MrHammerlein]

Silly hen-pecking feminist interpretation of the Birth of Athena- she was born as an IDEA- a skull-splitting headache of clanging intellectual armor and weaponry- popping out of the head of Zeus because she is THOUGHT