A Complete Cost Comparison of Deep Cycle Batteries: LiFePO4 Lithium // FLA // AGM

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Renewable Energy Engineer Jesse Gorter explains in detail how to calculate the overall lifetime price of any type of battery, including LiFePO4 lithium batteries, industrial flooded lead acid batteries and AGM's.
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Jesse

Jesse Gorter
Renewable and Sustainable Energy Engineer, Master of Engineering
Mechanical Engineer, Energy Technology, Bachelor of Engineering

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Any information provided including but not limited to videos and exercises is provided for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice: Always consult a licensed professional for any design or installation work, and ensure to abide by all applicable regulations, governmental or otherwise. If you choose to use any of the information provided you do so at your own risk.

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#batterycostcomparison #islithiumcheaperthanleadacid #islithiummoreexpensivethanleadacid

[dennisolsson]

Personal reflection: I love that you are looking away (upwards) every now and again. It gives the impression of/shows that you are doing this by heart and not reading from a manuscript.

[theunssnyman]

Thank you Jesse, superb as always. One thing that should also be taken into account is the scrap value for FLA batteries vs the recycling fee that is charged for Lithium.

[brucefay]

This is useful as a rough comparison of the battery chemistries and designs, especially the lifetime discharge and lifetime cost per kWh. As others have noted, the realities of batteries in actual use is more subtle. Fully charged lead-acid batteries are 2.1 V/cell, so 12.6 VDC for a “12 V” battery and 6.3 VDC for a “6 V” battery. But that voltage is not constant; it drops under load and with increasing DoD. LiFePO4, by comparison, has a slightly higher nominal voltage and maintains (much of) that voltage throughout the discharge. Still, a very useful analysis.

[pwarelis]

Most excellent and informative content!

[LivingFree]

Awesome way of breaking down the cost and comparison!

[fransdebruijn]

Interesting video, I think there is more to the story; I have been off grid for over 20 years and had to recently replace my second set of FLA batteries. Although I could have directly drop in lithium batteries(not all lithium batteries can be wired in series), I went back to FLA batteries mainly due to the warranty of the lithium had so many conditions and was so short compared to FLA batteries it made me think that these lithium batteries must have a reliability problem. This reliability problem was further confirmed from my experience with lithium batteries used computer and power tool only lasting a couple of years and failing suddenly never even coming close to the number of charges/discharges quoted. FLA batteries life is considered it has lost 50% of its capacity at it end of life. My system consists of the 32 x 6V, 255AH batteries I had they slowly lost their capacity over 8 years with a daily cycle of between 25 to 30% DOD years which lined up with the manufacture’s data sheet of 3000 cycles. Down side of FLA batteries is that they require servicing every couple of months.

[vincentrobinette]

Big win for the tubular cathode lead acid industrial(forklift) battery. I'm probably going to start with inexpensive golf cart batteries, just because of the low initial cost. The only caveats with the golf cart and industrial batteries is the maintenance. They need to be kept clean, the terminals and cables free from corrosion, and an occasional addition of distilled water. The more expensive AGM lead acid and lithium batteries are basically maintenance free.

[tommckelvey]

What is failed to be mentioned is the fact that you’ll have to purchase 2 of the 6 volt batteries to achieve the same operating voltage of the LiFePO4 battery, and the MASSIVE size of the 6v 472Ah lead acid battery compared to the Group 31 LiFePO4 battery.
At 10” W x 15”L x 24” H, and 230 pounds, it’s double the size and it weighs nearly 8 times that of the LiFePO4 battery, and you’ll need two of them to get the same operating voltage.

Given the amount of energy storage per unit of storage space, LiFePO4 is a much better choice.

Put on top of that the amount maintenance that will go into assuring that the 6 v FLA battery lives a long and healthy life, LiFePO4 is the hands down winner here.

[davecook]

I would be very interested to see how Lead Carbon Battery compare

[paulsutton]

Nice, systematic analysis. In particular notice the conversion from amp-hours to kw-hours is exactly what you would expect.

[duncanjames]

Excellent video. A few comments. First, if the Lithium battery was set to a maximum DOD of 50%, its duty cycle would drastically increase. Second, the size and weight of lithium are substantially less than an FLA battery. (The latter being more of a benefit to mobile applications.) Third, Lithium batteries typically have a 10-year warranty because the integrated BMS records all of the data (regarding charge/discharge etc) necessary to prove how it failed. Fourth, a Lithium battery requires no maintenance. So for me, it's a clear winner in terms of cost/benefit. Thanks again for your presentation.

[DazzaOnGoogle]

It would be interesting to look at end of life performance too. At 4000 cycles, the lithium is probably delivering 75% of the original capacity, and has useful life left. not sure about the others..

[ieism]

I went back from lifepo4 to AGM for my off-grid home. While the cost/ performance of lithium was amazing, it basically failed randomly a few times in the first year I owned it. It was still in warranty, and I did not feel that these would last a few years. Not from a cycle perspective, but more the electrical components. There is a reason they do not give long warranties on these, most of them will probably never make it to 4000 cycles.
I had to buy a lot more AGMs to get the same capacity, but the way these fail is more predictable and known. Price was about the same in the end.

[superformOG]

i just bought a lifepo4 for 580/100ah and it has a cycle life of 4000-8000 i used 12v to calculate the capacity - that gives me a range of lifetime cost/kwh between 0.065 - 0.13 cents - also the charger, busbars and new wiring came to about 350. this needs to be calculated in as there is no such thing as true drop in replacement unless you are already set up for lithium. adding this changes the numbers to 0.08c - 0.17c now I'm glad i didn't get another agm - they are also 21kg for a 200ah lifepo4 compared to 74kg for a 250ah agm - i think i strained my back just thinking about installing an agm.

[charlieczw]

There is also another saving using Lithium ion phosphate batteries. Lead acid batteries are approx 70% efficient in terms of their charge efficiency. Lithium ion batteries, on the other hand, are around 95% efficient in terms of their charge efficiency so you use less electricity to charge them to 100%. Another obvious saving!

[philoso]

Nice video.
Since the load voltage and current are not constant through out the test and varies second by second. The assessment has become a task serve best by a computer and its telemetry equipment.

[ImplyDods]

Hi, could you clear something up please? If I understand it correctly, a lead acid battery end of life (ie how many cycles ) is quoted when there is only 50% capacity available from the original ah. But a lithium end of life is quoted at when there is 80% capacity left. Am I getting this wrong? If not the comparison in this video is way out. Someone help, I'm confused.

[SolarMiracle]

Thanks you very much, I want to have a batteries as stand by, they will be used only in emergency, which so far never happened !, So what type of battery is better ($/W) for me ?

[pascalbruyere]

The Wh calculation is arguable: the voltage and amp drop as you discharge, especially on lead acid batteries. At 50% discharge you are at what, 10.5V?
I have tested batteries with a Wh meter and consistently get much less than what would be the theoretical value.

[verdencanuto]

It depends on the user, I've been using used AGM Telco batteries 24/7 for 3years maintaining 50 percent dod or less...and still they are healthy .. lithium battery is way more expensive here in the Philippines....