Radical Non-Duality versus Rupert Spira

There is no need to watch this comic video and be unnecessarily inflamed.

This video is a COMEDIC RANT on non-duality. Not something to get upset about. (I write this because this video seems to have inadvertently courted a bit of controversy). Many earlier videos, especially Dream Bus Tours (see link below) are for the most part verbally silent. So no need to imagine from this one video that all videos are verbose or that I have ADHD or need to breathe. Although thanks for the suggestions.

Please read before commenting -

I was asked to comment on Rupert Spira. This is nothing more than a cheeky rant, showing the mammoth difference between Non-duality with consciousness and a need to find a true self and the so called radical Non-duality where there is already no-one (anywhere), let alone a someone with an actual consciousness that needs to become realised.

More animated videos (though none quite so ranty) like this are . . .

For quieter videos see Dream Bus Tours episode 1 Introducing Non-Duality

[everest]

I like this a lot. I went to a Rupert meeting a few years ago and it was (in my view) rather obvious that here was a seeker giving advice to other seekers.

[NewSonicLight]

@Non Dual Fun -- It all comes down to paradox in a way and Rupert has addressed this contrary to what seems to be said in this video. That is, paraphrased - One finds once seeking stops. Yet without a seeker, there is no finding. There is a self, there isn't, etc. etc.

As he has stated himself and I have observed over years, he tailors his responses to questions according to what he senses is the place/space of the question/questioner is in, and what may be appropriate. He's even stated that his replies can seem to contradict themselves - sometimes it needs to firm, other times gentler

In some videos this is very evident in how he pauses, sometimes for 10 seconds or more before saying anything.

There is also the ethos created by the aggregate of a group in which he is speaking, a kind of overall hologram of the flow and subject matter that arises. Which can and does vary from video to video.

In short, pinning him down to being and doing only this or that is IMO more, well, this vs. that. Every "localization" of C/consciousness (or absence of it - lol) varies, and so who and how it is danced will vary.

Do and be what works for you or the non-you you are or are not. :)
Comparisons are ultimately irrelevant.

[WandaThePanda]

I appreciate your articulation of your disagreement with what Spira says, but I - in turn! - strongly disagree with what you share and what I have heard from other radical non-dualists (if I may use that term).

Radical non-duality is, let me be frank, nothing new. That understanding is present in Dzogchen, Advaita, some other forms of Buddhism etc. The vehicles in which that teaching is shared include other aspects, some times forms of meditation or other practices aimed at bettering the experience of the apparent person - with full awareness of the paradoxical nature of that combination.
Like Spira himself often says, these are compassionate compromises that don't point straight to the truth, but have their proper time and place, within the apparent experiences of apparently other people.

"Radical" non-duality, not surprisingly, was "found out" (not the proper term) by a few western teachers who tend to throw the baby out with the bath-water. Hilariously, I've heard Tony Parson make the challenge "find someone who shares exactly what I share! All religions and traditions simply miss the mark!"
I'm paraphrasing, of course, but it feels to me like it all ultimately boils down to a game of semantics and policing which (inevitably inaccurate) explanation of reality is the "purest" one. This is what the "non-dual police" expression refers to, I suppose.

The fun thing is, there are plenty of teachers who had a "radical" phase - Lisa Cairn and Jeff Foster come to mind - and eventually got back to the task (the game?) of contributing to other people's life without any superfluous need for purity. I would recommend Fred Davis as someone who is VERY clear about the un-reality of it all, but still engages with his followers in a more compassionate matter (he often expresses this paradoxical attitude with "nothing matters! ...but everything counts.")

What radical non-duality seem to miss, from my perspective, is the "multi-tasking" intention of pointing to the truth while addressing other issues - since all these apparent efforts ultimately boil down to the pursuit of happiness, at least from the human point of view. I do respect the genuine intention of not mixing up the finger with the moon; that is something that I understand and appreciate. But I also inevitably see the risk, in radical non-duality, of impoverishing people's experience and potentially sending them down oddly dark paths; it all is, I know, appearing in the unreality of our lives. Still, I prefer teachers who openly prioritize skillfulness in pursuing happiness over an excessively zealous attempt at being 100% non-dual.

Genuine thanks to everyone who made it this far, and read everything I wrote! 😅

[bradylabbie]

I was very much sucked into the idea that I needed to be enlightened by reading eckhart tolle and others that are similar. I came across this “radical nonduality” about a year later and began to learn about that one as well. I finally came to the understanding that I had never had any idea of what I was looking for and had no clue how i was going to get there. I wanted to badly to “end my suffering.” I decided I didn’t care about any of these teachings. I was going to just get to the bottom of this myself. I had started meditating and going about my day just paying attention to everything that was happening. Paying attention to thoughts and senses and what have you. I won’t speak much on what was realized by doing this because words always seem to spark disagreement about it. That being said, I completely understand your take on this. However, after “doing” this work, I listen and read the works of Rupert Spira ans Tolle and I can understand why they say the things they do. Again the only problem being that the wordage implies that someone has to do something to get somewhere. I think that both sides of the nondual perspective can be important in this. I couldn’t imagine showing someone who is new to this stuff your videos right off to the get go lol. It’s almost like it has to be leaned into. I know that even those last two sentences don’t really make sense with the truth, but sometimes it’s just the way that we have to talk lol. All this being said, I really like your videos and great work! This is just my two cents that nobody (literally) asked for.

[lisabalach]

Thank you for the videos. For those who want to argue, critique, or defend Rupert’s honor, I would say watch the videos again and again and again. Or not. There is no message there for “you”, so there is no she’s right or she’s wrong. All you can do is watch them many times and maybe! there is a perspective change, a seeing occurring, something shifts. That’s it. Discussion isn’t a part of it.

[lisalawwill]

I listened to Rupert Spira, read his books, and it 'appeared' that a point came where I just couldn't anymore. He was saying there is no one, no chooser, no doer, then he would have everyone doing these long meditations. Or self inquiry (are you aware?). The thought kept coming up "who is meditating? Who is inquiring?" Meditation and self inquiry have fallen away for 'me'. Seeking seemed to be reinforced with his teaching. I stumbled upon Kenneth Madden, Jim Newman, and a couple of others and realized they were what Spira refers to as Neo-advitists in a disparaging way. I completely agree with you in this video. The difference is they are not teachers. They continually pull the rug out from under the whole separate self illusion. They make no concessions. No compromise. They continually share that there is nothing you can do because there is no you and that this has always been the case. It does, however, seem that there is a progression or needs to be a readiness for the radical Nonduality. Now, I can no longer listen to Spira. He's a person speaking to a person, which just reinforces the seeking energy and there's absolutely no resonance at all. I want to repeat though, as others in this comment section have said, there does seem to be a need for readiness for radical Nonduality.

[inzichtnu]

Lovely video. I had exactly the same turnaround as you. For 20 years I have been passionately teaching the message of classical nonduality, with, of course, great emphasis on Awareness. Wrote books about it. When I came in touch with Jim Newman, Andreas, Tony and Kenneth Madden, everything completely collapsed. It was seen that it had all been a teaching of ignorance. Without there being a someone being ignorant, of course. Just ignorance, owned by no one. Stopped all my meetings and retreats, just can’t get that story out of my mouth anymore. Thanks for pointing out the difference between the apparent two versions of nonduality in such a light way.

[fredruhoff]

I love ontology, and Rupert Spira gets so deep into it. I find his way of talking mesmerizing, calming, and very thought provoking.

[olia]

It seems that this video is provoking a lot of reactions.
There was a time when "I" was like that too. My little concepts were not to be disturbed, "I" wanted them safe as in a castle.
And, little by little here, the "person" guarding the castle naturally decomposes and all that's left is what seems to appear and has always been... without a so-called me or a so-called consciousness that have never existed.

[jaytruther]

After a glimpse/kensho after many years of seeking meditating and binge watching all non dual teachers. I feel this was a bit confusing.
There definitely is silence as where do the the thoughts come and go? As the years have gone by this silence has come more forwards and thoughts are less sticky. In the kensho all was still and silent, so not sure where your coming from. But im happy to understand and not trying to say your wrong, maybe im wrong 😅

[beatrizkarwai]

some non-duality speakers have said that this 'wholeness' or 'what is' is just apparently spontaneous energy, or 'unconditional love'. i don't understand why it would be unconditional love, it makes sense that it's unconditioned, for the lack of causality, but why 'love'? couldn't we say that it's 'unconditional indifference'? it makes more sense, or lack of, however we want to express that.

[suzannecarter]

I wonder what you'd think of Franklin Merrill Wolfe (it would only take a minute, just read his 3 realizations and aphorisms.) I'm so pleased you enjoyed Douglas Harding and linked to "Read the Faerie Tale and Die". Thanks so much for your amusing takes on all this stuff.

[shinevr]

Interesting however these types of statements about there being nobody and nothing are like a snake eating it's own tail, it kinda cool and points towards the truth but ultimately limited as it doesn't translate and just goes around and around, what Rupert does is actually creates a tangible bridge to such a understanding via direct experience beyond just say nobody is here,

I have seen many teachers speak about non duality and radical non duality is like a man standing in a mirror telling himself aka all the viewers that nothing exists yet has created a video to tell the imaginary people about it, the action and words don't make sense and contradict the message, personally I find radical non duality pointless but based on its own teachings of which there cannot be any it appears that's it's point, which brings us again to the snake eating it's own tail.

[Chingfordassociates]

Thanks for the latest video. Imagine trying to will yourself into a dissociative state and then calling it enlightenment!

[markgarrett]

I came, I saw, I went.
These videos really are fun.
And by the way, it doesn't matter.

[artpinsof]

Tribalism is in our Human culture and DNA (maybe)

“No Self” is not truer than “Self”

Comparison is clearly Dualistic

The Shankara quote I shared below hold the essence of this

Trying to use the right words, and “othering” those who use the “wrong words” is clearly not “non” duality

[mattusstiller]

Conciousness both does and doesn't exist. It lives for ever, though it was never alive to begin with. That's the problem with non duality, it doesn't make sence, it is supposed to not make sence. When you divide one by zero do you get infinity or minus infinity? How can infinity even exist if you can't define it, by specific number. I don't know for sure what is it I understand about reality in that state, but when I was in that state I knew I won't remember what it was. Belief that conciousness doesn't exist is kind of dualistic in nature.

[timm.]

I love these videos so much. I used to listen to Rupert a lot, but after a drop of the me (all of it apparently of course) it's just impossible to believe what he says any longer.

[Taklalak]

how about jed mckenna and david carse ?

[Iam]

Serious question, can you stop being I? Do you have this center of existence where experience starts from? Thrs no separate individual but thrs an underlying reality in which all of appearance appears.