The History Behind Smash's Most Eternal Argument

What is time? That fleeting little thing. A construct in the mind of all of us. How does it function? How does it move? That’s what we are here to discuss today: the essence of time and what it means for our games.

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#SuperSmashBros #SuperSmashBrosMelee #MeleeTimer #SmashTimer #Timer #PGStats

[wgb]

People keep arguing about the timer this Puff that; when we all know the real solution to the woes of competitive Melee rulesets is Rishi's Jungle Jam.

[nblord]

Something the video didn’t really mention was the fact that in Smash and platform fighters in general, running away from your opponent is much more viable than in traditional fighters. In games like Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter the stages only go so far and backing yourself into a corner is bad for your health bar. 3D fighters are a bit different but your mobility options are certainly less than in Smash.

[rubberducky]

Here’s the answer to the question of why timeouts in tekken, sfv, strive, etc are hype and smash isn’t: those games have rounds of 60, 90, and 90 seconds iirc. Seeing somebody camp for 90 seconds before the round ends isn’t as bad since it’s just a 90 second round rather than a full game and it will be reset to even life after. The games are pretty dynamic meaning that even the most boring rounds likely won’t affect the game overall. Additionally, the game plans are much more straight forward due to things like whiff punishing and combos being more straightforward due to the lack of options like DI and air drift. I play all of them and even the most defensive characters in tekken are centered around applying pressure up close when you can. Zoning in strive and sfv (with maybe a couple of exceptions) are more committal meaning that their counterplay is also more straightforward. The llod Hbox sets are honestly pretty hype to watch if I speed them up to 2x speed but it’s a bit much to watch them normally since it’s just 8 minutes of almost nothing.

[drakejoshofficialyoutubech]

If what was mentioned about the 7 minute timer having no difference between the 8 minute timer is true then I think that the 7 minute timer should be implemented just so that the maximum length a set can run ends up being lower.

Also like the video mentioned, timeouts can be exciting, the boring part is getting to there though, so again, if there really is no difference between the 7 and 8 minute timer then we should just use the 7 minute timer because we'd get to the exciting part quicker.

[ThatWolfArrow]

Everyone always talks about the timer's role in matches, but what about tournament runtime as a whole? It's not a secret that smash takes a super long time compared to other fighters in large part due to the timer and stock count, so why does no one ever talk about this?

[BBB-peip]

The only reason Westballz started to approach Armada is just because he had two extra stocks, and Armada was at 111%. Camping pressured Armada into that position. Westballz had 2 full stocks to land a clean hit and win the game.

[RockManSSB]

One major statistic that wasn’t taken into account was despite the YouTube views, how long did people on average watch that video for? A 3k view video with 10 minute average watched for each view is still better than a 20k view video where people watch for 1 minute because they saw a 45 minute video in the thumbnail and skipped to the end.

[ODISeth]

Shoutouts to whoever decided to theme all the music and the intro around PMD:Explorers, a game entirely focused around time. I’m guessing it’s the editor but still, huge props, that was a lovely decision

[dezlyo]

i feel like its pretty clear why timeouts in smash are different. "camping" in smash is way way way different and more powerful than in any fighting game. avoiding interaction is much more powerful in smash, and having an EIGHT MINUTE instead of 99 second clock to wear down doesnt help either

[roosterboots]

Has Gerson Boom, the extremely old tortoise from Undertale, been a Smash reference this entire time??

[piersonmurray]

I think the difference between a timeout in other fighting games compared to smash is how they happen. In traditional fighters it’s a lot harder or impossible to entirely run away from your opponent so timeouts tend to be a lot more hype. In smash it’s not nearly as entertaining to see a character just kinda floating in the sky or on top platform for a significant portion of the match

[ShawFujikawa]

The editors were definitely indulging their sense of nostalgia when they picked the soundtrack for this vid.

[rannynihilius]

This is just coming from a very subjective place but when my friends and i watched the Genesis 8 Top 8 we agreed that llod vs Hungrybox was the most fun set of the entire broadcast as it had a heated story line around the players and heart attack giving non interactive play as any hit could turn it all around.

In my opinion timeouts/campy games are fine aslong as the players really show that they use the extra time to think more carefully about their moves and not just run away from each other.

Hbox and llod play the most fun long matches in the game for me because both of them are the best spacers of each character turning a boring stall fest into a nail biter every time for spectators.

[BBB-peip]

"In practice, such hypotheticals still remain to be seen..."
You've never played 2 stocks 2 minutes and it shows.

People abuse the timer for wins all the time, and that's just on Elite Smash. Imagine people doing this in tournaments, a place where everyone is super competitive and will do anything to win.

[theillusionist]

Using music from Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of *Time* is an inspired choice.

It's always an inspired choice, that game AND its music always go hard, but it's especially appropriate here.

[BBB-peip]

"But the video has over 40, 000 views"
That's because the set features Armada's Young Link. Nothing more. The campy sets have tons of (hidden) dislikes and often the lowest live viewership. In comparison, there are several sets of Melee with almost 1, 000, 000 views, none of which feature camping.

[Brain-washed]

leffen having his massive influence despite everything has a lot of people thinking a 7;59 timer would completely ruin the game forever.
also, royal flush 2017
haven't watched the video yet

yeah so leffen displaying his massive intelligence saying "lol nice sample size" while also saying there should never be a tournament held with a shorter timer again. Despite the only one so far having good results and not proving his point at all.
need to take notes from every other fgc..

[autumndth]

The mystery dungeon music was so good in this

[Pslamist]

I forget who suggested it, but my favorite idea is that whether the timer starts at 7 or 8 minutes, every timeout makes the next round one minute shorter.

[Jazardly]

we should get data of set lengths and look at the distribution then cap the timer near some percentile