Why I'm Not a Pacifist

When Quakers say we want to work for peace, does that just mean the lack of war? Or is it something greater?

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Transcript:

I think that pacifism is like a fruit, and I would like to have a word that somehow describes that fruit of reconciliation grows from roots that are tended in the soil of worship.

Why I’m Not a Pacifist

In what we call Friends peace testimony now [George] Fox talks about living in that light and power that takes away the occasion for all wars. And I think that life and power part is the soil that we need to nurture—all of us—to be in that life and power that takes away the occasion for all sorts of violence and helps us move out of the comfort of the institutions we've built and into some new space.

Revolutionary Peacemaking

When I think of “pacifist” I think that the word is too small to hold what I would like to mean and not sure what the word is so I'm going to try and work it out. “Pacifist” implies someone who denies or abores or negates the use of physical violence and war—which I do—but it doesn't in my mind open up the truly revolutionary possibilities that are implied in peacemaking and especially in faithful peacemaking and more specifically, for me, in Christian peacemaking.

“There is enough”

There's some word—maybe it's reconciliation—to describe Jesus's ministry which he ministers to the pain and suffering not just of those affected by violence but by poverty and greed, other forms of violence that aren’t the physical violence implied by war which then gets me to pacifism.

So maybe, I was thinking about this, maybe I'm a “Shalomist”: someone who believes in God’s shalom, God's peace and abundance for all… that God wills that everyone has abundance and peace and is doing what they are supposed to be doing.

Or maybe I'm a “Jubilee-ist,” who believes that we can work to a time when we have dismantled human structures and institutions as we're invited to by the description of the Jubilee year to lay down all contracts, to let the slaves go, to let the land lie fallow, to return all of the landholdings to their original owners, like a big cosmic reset button of possibility of an acknowledgment that there is provision. There is enough.
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The views expressed in this video are of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Friends Journal or its collaborators.

[monabernhardt]

what i’m hearing, and feeling inspired by, is the notion that we are called to do more than avoid violence, we are to actively spread peace via agape

[gooders]

Okay, but when you have a belligerent oppressor who is bullying one weaker than they and who will not cease to do so by persuasion and all that to is for a helping of the oppressed party is intervention with force - then what?
CS Lewis includes this scenario in his essay Why I’m Not a Pacifist.

[YouthFreedomFighters]

Christians aren't called to be Pacifists they're called to be Peacemakers there's a difference. Pacifists avoid violence at all costs and are not peacemakers but rather victim makers starting with themselves since they will not do what is necessary to stop troublemakers. Peacemakers on the other hand are those who use whatever means are necessary to stop troublemakers and thus they bring about peace. And they use what means are necessary to maintain peace which ideally would mean they wouldn't have to engage in conflict or resort to violence because nobody will cause any trouble with them around.

[DontBugMePLZ]

Killing a bread thief is as stupid as leaving a serial killer alive

[jamessummers]

Thank you, Kristina. What you say comports well with what I call "pacifism". It's a very active approach. Pacifists are not the people who sit on the couch, watch TV and drink beer. They are the people who confront the violence of the world, with love, taking the same sort of chances, in many cases, that combat soldiers do, but without the weapons. In fact, they are a great deal like soldiers. It takes a great deal of courage, a great deal of resolve, and requires the testing and transformation of one's own inner violence to take that approach. Then, when the chips are down, we can only hope and pray that we will be faithful to that peace. It's like being a vegetarian---you can say anything you want about yourself, but what counts is what you do when you sit down at the table and make your choices for that meal, that bite. I hope for the courage and love to never again pick up a gun with the intent to do "good" with it.

[DeneCroxford-kocz]

Quakerism is like Buddhism in that we don't condone warfare and offensive armed conflict. That doesn't mean to say that we don't defend ourselves or others from violence. Martial arts are a perfect example of how we can defend ourselves from attack.

[enigmalozinka]

I believe that pacifism is an unintelligent approach. In some situations, you just have to fight back in order to preserve your country and culture for future generations. Freedom doesn’t come for free.

[hylianhylidae]

My view is less that there should be no violence whatsoever, as that will never be possible no matter how optimistic or pacifistic I might be, but rather that we should try to be civil and avoid having to cause it whenever possible. That is, if there's a way for people to more peacefully resolve a situation, it should absolutely be tried. After all, the Spirit made us with a free will and by God are people going to exploit it.

[jshir]

Unless women are willing to fight in war they have no right to advocate for war

[charleswest]

Spirituality is the way towards peace.

[ronlentjes]

Same as above Same as below. We are already who we will be and continue to learn. We are spirits inhabiting a physical body to experience this physical world. When we "die" we shed this physical body and continue living in spirit with the same personality and issues we had a second before we lost our physical body. We are a spirit with or without a physical body at any given time. We reincarnate as many times as we want. Out spirit never dies. So NOW is always the time to take action. To help those in the physical realm and those in the spiritual realm. There are spirits doing well and not well in both physical and spiritual realms. And we all are one big family of creation. All of us.

[SunGodNika-bijr]

You can spill drinks on me, even spit on me, I’ll just laugh about it, But, good reason or not, nobody hurts a friend of mine. -Red-Haired Shanks

[johnellis]

ROMANS 13:1 --- MAN’S GOVERNMENT IS DEADLY
Just before pacifist Christ was crucified by man’s deadly government, he said: “My kingdom is not of this world.” So, below is how man’s deadly government treats a pacifist Christian:

“Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established… if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing.” Ro 13:1

And so, if you are in the pacifist kingdom of God, below is the relationship you are suppose to have with the deadly kingdom of man:

“You have read that it was commanded by Moses, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'
I now say to you: Do not use force to overcome evil. Instead, whenever you are struck on the right cheek you must turn to them also the other. And one prosecuting you in court, in order the cloak of yours to take, give him also your coat.” Mt 5:38

[garynaccarto]

As far as pacifism it's an idea many Quakers believe in.but I think for many its just like any other doctrine or rule people dogmatically cling to.I personally would not call myself a pacifist and if I were to jion a comunity that was aggressively preaching you must be a pacifist that kind of ruins the whole thing for me.Quakers call themselves "friends" but if somebody was aggresively pushing any kind of doctrine I don't necessarily agree with down my throat that doesn't seem like a "friend" to me that seem as if that person in many ways just as bad as any other fundamentalist Christian or fundamentalist in general.

[UniversalistSon]

Peace was the greatest law of Christ, we must stay peaceful in everything that we do. Jesus Christ's message of love and nonviolence is unmistakable. He taught his followers to "love thy neighbor as thyself" (Mark 12:31) and, even more radically, to "love your enemies, do good to those who hate you" (Luke 6:27). This call to love and forgiveness is not limited to personal relationships but extends to all aspects of life, even in the face of conflict and adversity. Jesus' teachings on detachment, as seen in his Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7), offer a powerful framework for pacifists to cultivate inner peace, even in turbulent times. By letting go of attachment to worldly outcomes and desires, we can find a deep sense of peace and equanimity, allowing us to remain calm and compassionate, even in the midst of chaos. As followers of Jesus' teachings, pacifists can embody this radical love and nonviolence, becoming beacons of peace and hope in a world often torn apart by conflict and division.
Doing this can be hard, but we must crucify ourselves daily for God and for each other.
Much love!
❤️💚❤️

[troyhayder]

Im a pacifist...by choice...i dont want to hurt people...but if you piss me off...im sorry it was your fault...

[mishapurser]

i.e. applying the golden mean to the testimony of peace

[troyhayder]

I am making a massive effort to play ball...and im not really sure i should...but you should definitely be happy about it...

[thenewcovenantforthenewera]

What you are trying to say is unconditional love. This is the only revolution left. Youtube channel: the new covenant for the new era

[blackberry]

That was the most convoluted something that never really reached a point rambling session that I've ever heard. Too much learning makes one go mad.