CMCW: M47 Dragon vs T-55, T-62 and T-64 (Chosen by Patrons)

The ancient M47 Dragon ATGM vs the T-55, T-62 and T-64 in Combat Mission Cold War.

This is a weapons effects demo: being capable of penetrating and knocking out static, unresponsive targets does not necessarily translate into battlefield effectiveness against a thinking, moving enemy who shoots back. The damage caused is representative rather than definitive- strange things can happen!#combatmission

[phil]

I love how we were expecting the t-64 to tank the hit from the dragon, but the dragon got a lucky hit on the lower glacis, so another test was run with a hull down t-64 lol. 😂

[ndx]

The Dragon has to be one of my favorite ATGMs, it's just so craptastic and awful that I can't help but be impressed when it hits anything, let alone has a damaging effect. At least it looks cool!

[markvn]

its the thermal imager with an optional missile launcher attached to it.

[DanilaR]

I really hope they add airborne units for both factions

[briansmithwins]

Dragon does make you pay attention. I made sure to screenshot when I got a Dragon kill against a T64 from the front. I wanted proof that it’s possible.

[nothingnothing]

I swear to God, even M47(FGM-77) Dragons are Wire-guided SACLOS, unreliable and single-shot disposable, it's were slow flight, requiring 9.5 to 11.5 seconds to reach a target at speeds of about 85 to 110 m/s. The range was limited to up to 1 km, or with an extended flight of about 100 meters, making it a total of 1100 meters (for both the original Dragon and Dragon II variants), the popping sound and flames from the small pairs of rocket motor thrusters would give away the gunner's position, Additionally, they failed to penetrate tanks like the T-64, T-72, and T-80 which only have 330mm penetration(original dragon) and performance is looks awful.

But, this weapon can be man-portable and was the first ATGM that can be shoulder-fired/launched in the world.

The weight was, of course, heavy, approximately 14.6 kg (the original missile weighed 11.5 kg, including the SU-36/P daylight tracker sight which added 3.1 kg), with night tracker sight weight was 21.32 kg (the original missile weighed 11.5 kg, including the AN/TAS-5 Night tracker sight/thermal imaging sight which added 9.82 kg), Nonetheless, the dragon was still better than other ATGMs that are used tripods, with the whole set up, bulky and heavier and longer setup times for deployment. For Dragons was simply, to remove the forward shock absorber and deploy their bipod or mount on platforms such as the M113 commander cupola hatch or GPMG/HMG tripods with the M175 weapon mount addon, then put sight link up with launcher, finally here you go to fire.

Furthermore, like the TOW BGM-71, Dragons had its own thermal imaging sight capabilities in the late '70s, Although the sight it's large, bulky, so heavy(9.82 kg) and the battery only offers 2 hours, AN/TAS-5 still offers a very good advantage for Dragon gunners for see through the smokes, cloud, fog, low visibility and darkness for engage.

The small pairs of rocket motor thrusters produced small smoke clouds, which reduced the enemy's ability to track their position, Although it was not a good idea at all combined with popping sounds and boosting flames, the Dragon's missile's unconventional flight path, characterized by rolling and leaping toward the target, it's very good to confusing the enemy trying to find the ATGM position.

Dragon Their accuracy was someone who claimed a 20% or lower down to 0% hit rate, Honestly, it's all related and highly dependent on factors such as the quality, skills, and technical proficiency of the gunner, as well as the specific situation. Despite being characterized as slow flight, unreliable, and having a limited range and underpowered warhead(especially the original dragon), Otherwise, the Dragon missile generally had good accuracy & their hit rate was 85% in general.

While the 330mm penetration might not have been enough to disable the latest and newest tanks, even with the Dragon II variant offering the same range, speed, and the same unreliable performance, slightly heavier(about 12.3 compared to the original 11.5) with increased penetration of 610mm, it still was not enough to destroy the latest, newest and toughest armored Soviet tanks since they got strong armor, ERA protection. However, there's no doubt it could damage their subsystems and cripple their performance. Additionally, there was no problem in engaging old Soviet tanks and APC/IFVs, let alone say against the fortified position, foxhole and bunker.

Even Infantry Squads had worse ATGM capability, although like awful as the M47 Dragon or some other ATGM much worse, Nevertheless, it still provided them with a tool for fight that was better than an infantry squad that had No ATGM capability at all.

In fact, if the Dragon missile did not exist in past, today the Javelin ATGM might not have been developed. So, in my conclusion, is the M47 (FGM-77) Dragon was indeed considered an inferior and awful ATGM, but it doesn't mean it was useless, Like any other weapon, its effectiveness depends on how you deploy and use it properly.

[NB-lwsm]

It seems like everything on a cold war battlefield can kill each other and its all just luck by who shoots first

[DavinValkri]

Did the Swiss military ever say why they picked Dragon and Super Dragon over Euro designs that seemed better regarded, like Swedish BILL or French/WG MILAN?

[smartuy]

That gunner was absolutely cracked on the first T-64

[forcea]

Surely you mean 3/3 crew casualties for the T-64?

[wheneggsdrop]

The T64 is the first true MBT.

Edited for the sake of argument;
-Large caliber gun preferably smoothbore and able to fire APFSDS (100mm plus)
-Armor able to withstand AP and HEAT projectiles of the time from the frontal axis
-Decent mobility can't be a heavy tank
-Mass produced
-Replaces heavy and medium tanks in service

Many tanks fit this profile but I personally believe that the T64 is the first "true" main battle tank and not a WW2 style design. We also can see that it was not quickly out dated because it saw use until the collapse of the Soviet union. The design was further refined with the T64A, B, BV and inspired or helped develop designs like the T72 and T80. The T64 is still in use on the battlefield to this day in Ukraine and isn't performing any worse than the tank it is up against on the Russian side.

[TheAngriestGamer.]

now use the M47-III super dragon with --600mm-- 800mm pen vs the T64A and watch it turn into a can opener.

[nbrrckr]

Its funny, I don't really pay much mind to even T-72 and T-90, but every time I see a T-64 I start sweating a little bit and I start huddling my units into my bosom like a protective mother. Or inversely I focus my entire force on the T-64 in a manner that has no doctrinal basis and only serves to sketch out my Pixeltruppen because I got all pitchy with my orders. It's not right. 64 < 72; it shouldn't be that good.

[radarradarovic]

I hope Dragon has its iconic popcorn sound in CM. Otherwise it's totally unplayable.

[Mechanized]

whoever say Dragon is worthless, they're wrong, Dragon are still fine and effective weapon.