A43 'Black Prince' - Tank Design & Development - Rare Images

A look at the background to the A43 Black Prince, some new photos, history, and asking the question if it was the right vehicle or not.

Topics:
0:00 - Introduction
0:20 - A43 "Black Prince"

Sources:
National Archives at Kew
Wartime documents
Bovington

©Armoured Archives
Music Copyright © Epidemic Sound
#A43 #BlackPrince #WW2 #Tanks #MilitaryVehicles

[Werrf]

If it had been fielded in, say, early 1944, it would have been a good tank. If it had been fielded in early 1944 with a decent engine, it would have been an outstanding tank. But instead, Centurion beat it to deployment, and as soon as Centurion was around, every other tank was obsolete.

[Retrosicotte]

Like many British projects of the era, "1 year too late" comes to mind. It's a wonder to think how things might have differed if that "dead year" of armoured development and production caused by the rearmament rush after France to Dunkirk had not occurred like it did.

[robmiller]

My Dad was a Tank Commander of an M4 Sherman Powered by a Ford 18 Litre GAA V8 which was specifically Designed as a Tank Engine. He was in the 20th Armored Regiment of the New Zealand Army and fought through Italy. He had previously fought with the New Zealand 20th Battalion in Greece, Crete and North Africa where he fought as a foot slogger alongside the Cromwells and Matildas.
He was very thankful that New Zealand could afford to buy the tanks it wanted as we economically had lots of reserves; he was very pleased we didn't buy any British Tanks, the M4 Sherman with the Ford Engine (550 hp) and its 75 mm gun was a great tank compared to the British. Of course there was the Sherman Firefly which had the famous British 17 pounder fitted just incase you ran into a Tiger, but my dad's tank just had the standard 75mm. However my dad survived, met my mum and that is why I'm alive!
Dear Dad drove Fords to the day he died, he said the Ford GAA V8 was such a reliable and powerful engine ! I've got a photo of him and his crew sitting on the front of the Beast!
I think he liked something that was faster than the troops when you ran into a Panzer Mk4, Stug etc. He told me that he never saw a Tiger or a Panther in Italy; probably just as well.

[Charles-xeqh]

I don't get the hate for the Black Prince concept. Had (a) the tank been ready by D-Day and (b) it had had a decent engine it would have been exactly what we needed - a heavy tank with a gun capable of taking on the heavier German tanks. It was just incredible that they did not plan to upgrade the engine from the beginning of this project. Such a heavy tank could have been very useful in the set-piece, close range, slugging battles of Normandy.

[bjharvey]

Good looking machine. They almost had a Pre-Centurion on their hands. I imagine that this tank with 6 or 7 hundred horses under the hood would have been epic.

[chrispig]

What a brilliant channel this is, very informative and well presented

[Akm]

It had potential if they'd started the project at the same time as the A30 Challenger (December 1941) or even as late as summer 1942, maybe as an alternative to the A30. As it happened they simply started it far too late. The basic idea would have been handy in summer 1944 for fighting in Normandy though not so great for the subsequent advance across northern France or Operation Market Garden due to the low speed.

[knotd_]

Did you know that a Churchill MK IV of the post-war Irish army was successfully tested with a more powerful Rolls-Royce V12 Merlin engine mod? Anyway, Fletcher's book on the Churchill notes the swift re-work development of the A20 into A22 program was quite a remarkable war effort by Vauxhall motors. It also surprised me to see how much autonomy such contractors had, in designing these tanks; with both good and bad consequences. I think it's safe to say they did an excellent job given the specs and constraints as laid out by the war office and of course, having to work off the A20 prototype as produced by Harland & Wolff. So, they actually made the outdated WW1 spec A20 into a "workable" WW2 design. The few things which we can fault them for is their stubborn reluctance to omit sloped frontal armor design. Supposedly this was due to the Besa hull machine gun port/mount somehow not being compatible with a sloped armor design. Fletcher notes they were aware of how the American M4 Sherman solved the ball mount on sloped armor issue and they should have just opted for Browning machine guns. Regarding the engine: Vauxhall was very well aware of the minimum horsepower output requirement - and although things can never be powerful enough, the engine itself was actually a really solid design due to its excellent torque band regardless of RPM - despite the seemingly low power to weight ratio. This torque was so strong that the Churchill driver's manual warned the driver to not try out sudden sharp turns due to the strength of engine torque possibly causing to toss the crew around inside. Finally, Fletcher notes how Vauxhall waa reluctant to even start design on this Black Prince project, since they had their hands full on the Churchill rework program (basically after the Dieppe incident) and production & logistics of these updated MK IV's and the MK VII's in the last stages of the war.

[dougstubbs]

Stunningly handsome, balanced lines and victim of British hubris. Centurion remains the best looker, ever.

[genericpersonx]

Whatever stupidity one might assign to the British tank designs of WW2, and I emphasize the word "might, " I credit British tank designers for continuing to think for themselves and not simply give up their job to the Americans, however good the American tanks were. It was always an unsung strength of the Anglo-American Alliance that there was always a British alternative to every American asset, ensuring that if convoys failed to bring the American weapons, there was a British weapon to to do the job if needed until the convoys were restored. Even if the Germans had managed to sink every convoy for weeks, it would be be weeks before the British factories churning out Cromwells and Churchills ran out of steam, ensuring the Germans could never really strangle the Allies.

[kevkfz]

fabulous as ever. Best tanks video's on the tube.

[MisteriosGloriosos]

*Well done video production. I sure like it, good job!!!*

[tommygun]

Even though it seems to be a pointless construction but still I love the design!

[Smallyield]

Great video again. A cool name, cool looks but as with many British projects too much too late..

[SMRFisher]

I have always considered the Black Prince to WW2 tank doctrine, as the TOG II* was to WW1 doctrine - that being the ultimate iteration of an obsolete (or at least obsolescent) concept.

For the future of British tank design it was probably a good think that a Meteor propelled variant wasn't produced as it would have left the British Army lumbered with new out of date equipment rather than embracing the Centurion and the 'modern' MBT concept.

[Survve_Thrive]

@6:15 "Oi! Blasted squaddies, moind moiy tree"
Mind my tree!

[stanisawszczypua]

Taking into consideration outstanding front armor, and one of the best gun of WW2, then if it had proper engine and reasonable speed, then Black Prince would be a great tank. Probably one of the best during WW2.

[trejbiorgroup]

Nice content. This tank indeed entered late in production. I always believe that regular churchills had a relatively poor main armament as compared to the armour that it possessed. Black prince was a solution to that

[Ashleigh]

The Churchill tank served in north-west Africa - where Allied forces encountered the Tiger for the first time. while the Churchill's cross country and hill climbing performance were praised, he contrast between it and the Tiger should have made the British - 'sit up and take notice'. It is therefore plausible to have a requirement for both a Cruiser and Infantry tank with a bigger gun capable of dealing with the new German tanks. OTL design of the Comet started in July '43, and the Black Prince in the autumn of 1943, so we gain three months on the Comet and six months for the B-P. If the B-P was designed have a similar speed or better than the Churchill it was replacing - it wouldn't get th Bedford. Comet may not be in time for D-Day, but could make Falaise, and B.P. could make then Rhine crossing.

[billballbuster]

Infanrty Tanks were almost always fitted with Anti-Tank guns - 2Pounder and 6 Pounder rather tan a howizer type weapon of more use in infantry support. Black Prince was just following the establisher practice.