Neylan McBaine: Women at Church—10 Years Later

We have decided to share with you 2-3 sessions from our recent Restore gathering to give you a taste of what took place during this amazing weekend. Last week we shared Joseph Grenny’s incredible message. It was an instant classic. . Today, we’re honored to bring you another really special moment from Restore. In a powerful, unflinching, and faithful presentation, our friend and community leader Neylan McBaine addressed an “elephant in the room” that so often goes unnamed: our experience with patriarchy in our faith communities. We think it’s important to note that many members don’t necessarily experience patriarchy as a big problem, but many do, so our hope is that what Neylan shares here can offer new understanding and illustrate the frustration and pain that many women, perhaps especially younger women, experience in our patriarchal church organization.

In 2014, Neylan published her book Women at Church. In this address, she looks back at the decade since the book’s release and explores the tension between the way many women experience Church and a deep commitment to our faith and community. It’s an invitation to wrestle with complexity, to hold space for discomfort, and explore how we can do better in bringing womens gifts more fully into the body of Christ.

We truly hope you find as much wisdom and inspiration in this conversation as we did. And with that, we’ll hand it over to Neylan McBaine at Restore.

[benjamininouye]

I believe my sister would be very grateful for your message. This was part of her life's work. Thank you for continuing this cause.

[michelleludick]

I sometimes wonder how much of these things are cultural. I am a convert and have been a member of the church for almost 20 years. I am also a woman. I have always seen women sit on the stands, I have often been the final speaker in Sacrament, as have other women. In fact we have had many sacrament meetings where the speakers were solely women. And that is not unusual here.
I held my babies when they received their blessings because they were wriggly. It wasn't frowned upon.
I have been on ward council on and off for the better part of 10 years and have often helped plan speakers for sacrament. I am South African and I think our experiences are not the same. No one would dare ask a YW if she is wearing a tampon in the baptistry. I have 2 daughters, 2 sons, I was the YW leader for 5 years, I have been on many temple trips and no one would be so bold as to ask this.

My oldest daughter served a mission and was in a leadership position for most if it. She had an unusual mission and basically ran things in very small African communities (in either Namibia or Botswana). Her mission president who was American trusted her more than most elders to get things done. And she did.
In the MTC she had an elder as a companion (this was during COVID) and because they grew up together it was very natural for both of them. It is not unnatural for her to just lead.
She is recently married and in her new ward she openly disagrees with the old men who think they have the final say in Sunday school. She openly says, "I disagree" and then quotes from apostles why they are wrong and stuck in a different era. She might get a side eye but no one ever stops her or tells her she is somehow wrong.

Maybe we are just comfortable with shaking the status quo here. Perhaps it is inherently in us.

It is unsettling that the stories shared here are the reality for many and I am very sad for them, but this is very foreign to me. I am really wondering if this is not a cultural problem because I have never experienced it quite to this degree. It is heartbreaking and very disempowering. Men don't always like my viewpoint, but I think that goes for women too. 🤷🏻‍♀️ I am not sure if that is a sexist thing here. Eh! Don't go silently into the night ladies. Use your voices and keep moving forward with what you know to be right.

[marciaogden]

I’ve been in the Church for more than 70 years and have never been prohibited by the patriarchal system from developing a personal relationship with the Savior. Nothing prevents me from being transformed by him through feasting in the scriptures daily, attending the temple frequently, talking to God regularly, and serving others.

Women don’t leave the Church because they feel like second-class citizens. They leave because they haven’t had enough experiences with the Savior on a daily basis.

That doesn’t mean that these issues are not important, but they are secondary to the focus on that relationship with the Savior.

Thank you Sister Neylan for being an agent for change. I’ve thought about these issues for years and I’m happy to see females becoming more visible in their church service.

I would just add to this good lecture ways to remind us that our most important focus is the Savior, the most powerful agent for personal change. That will ground us as we seek to improve the system.

[natalieknowlton]

Preach sister!!! To the women who don't identify with these sentiments, I would ask you to simply seek understanding and empathy.

[ChabeTaber]

I love what McBaine presents on page 23 of her book: “We leave the ninety and nine to go after the one. We do that. We mourn with those who mourn, comfort those who stand in need of comfort. And we have members of the body of Christ who feel cut off, as a hand is cut off from the body. It is our divine mandate to be one, or we are not His, to be a Zion people. Isn’t this enough for us to stop and pay attention, even if we have not felt the same disconnect in our own lives?”

[markchristiansen]

I commend Faith Matters for giving this issue a platform for discussion, which may then lead to any needed progress.
This will raise strong or complex feelings among some members.
I'm a man. I think a major point here is that some women do not feel the history or culture of the church align with what Jesus ultimately taught. I agree.

We, and especially our leaders, need to listen to these women and learn from them. As Stephen Covey said, "Seek first to understand."
Elder Ballard in his book on councils stressed that leaders need to listen to all members, and especially make sure to listen to women.

I would point out that the negative effects of patriarchy have been part of world and church culture for a long time. Paul in the New Testament contributed to it. it's not a new thing, but I think we know better now.
Nothing Jesus himself taught supports treating women as inferior, and neither do any modern LDS scriptures that I can recall.

[markchristiansen]

As a man, there is a lot of food for thought here. I'm going to study this and listen with my wife.
One thing it seems to me that feminists get wrong - everything is not about who has official power, particularly in the church. I myself have never had a major leadership calling and maybe never will (too much a maverick, like Hugh Nibley said). I can still be happy and serve at church. And no one is lording it over me because I don't "have any power" in the organization.
But I realize I may just be clueless about what women go through. And the fact that this speaker feels our current patriarchy is causing pain and hurting membership numbers is enough reason to listen carefully to how some women are feeling..
And I definitely think our church needs to progress and evolve. We're not done yet, our culture is not yet fully "true, " and the Restoration is ongoing.

[elisabethkensinger]

I’m only 2 minutes in, but I’m confused by the suggestion that any man sitting in the pews has ecclesiastical authority over me. The only person in my ward with priesthood stewardship over me is my Bishop (and I suppose, by delegation, his counselors).

[rygarisfun]

I am totally down with the examples she gave about the bottom up ideas of new roles women can take in the church but ultimately I have one question: does she see a problem that women can not be apostles or bishops? Does she just advocate for collective work or does she ultimately want to erase the separate roles men and women now have?

[betheneainsworth]

Although I agree we should be able to discuss different opinions, I am deeply saddened by this woman sounding like she is speaking for the majority of women in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I’m became a convert at age 30 and some 33 years later, I have never felt less than any man in the church. I have held many calling in leadership and serve in the temple. We all serve under the authority of God and Jesus Christ. There are plenty of anti church platforms why do we have to hear this message in a space that is meant to uplift?

[marciamackie]

All women have priesthood power. We came with, we don't need to be ordained with it, we have duties and responsibilities that only we can accomplish. Stop trying to make women equal to men, it is insulting to women. The voices of women in the church have always been powerful. Celebrate the unique divinity we carry.