SpyCast - The Murder of an IRA Spy with Henry Hemming

This week’s episode is a recording of a previous program held here at the International Spy Museum. Andrew sat down in conversation with Henry Hemming to discuss his new book, Four Shots in the Night: A True Story of Spies, Murder, and Justice in Northern Ireland.

Henry is a prolific espionage author – He’s written books on espionage and intelligence during the Second World War, including Agent M on the great MI5 spymaster Maxwell Knight, Agents of Influence on William Stevenson, and Churchill's Iceman on the one-man think-tank Geoffrey Pyke. Four Shots tells the true story of the murder of Frank Hegarty, a British spy working within the Irish Republican Army. Tune in for a fascinating conversation exploring the impact and influence of espionage throughout The Troubles.

And…

Quotes of the Week
“This is where it becomes, morally, much more complex. What’s difficult … is that most of the handlers who were faced with these decisions didn't have adequate training. They didn't know what the law said. They didn't know exactly what the limits were to what they could and could not do … And suddenly, as we're beginning to find out, mistakes were made.” – Henry Hemming.

Dive deeper into this episode with additional resources:
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HOST - Dr. Andrew Hammond, Ph.D. is Historian & Curator at the International Spy Museum, home of the world's preeminent collection of intelligence-related artifacts. Previous chapters have included seven years in the RAF, Public Humanities at the 9/11 Museum in NYC, Fellowships here, there, and everywhere, and academia. He is author of the forthcoming book: "Struggles for Freedom": Afghanistan & US Foreign Policy Since 1979. He loves bialys.
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The International Spy Museum (SPY) is an independent nonprofit museum which documents the tradecraft, history, and contemporary role of espionage. It holds the largest collection of international espionage artifacts on public display.

[deadtopcat]

If the British security apparatus was running both sides in this conflict. The question has to be asked, who was fighting who for 30 bloody years.

[danieIlondon]

I’ll send this to my friend Graham Yuill. He was Lord Mountbattens bodyguard and warned of the IRA threat but nobody listened to him

[JamesJohnAgar]

It’s amazing how stakeknife died at the same time a report was being published into his actions for MI5!

[JamesFaulds-gg]

The dirty war in Ireland is both shocking and true. People like him were sacrificed but their deaths ultimately brought about the peace process in N. Ireland.

[Conorguill]

It has been fascinating to watch the spinning of the Troubles by the security services over the last 15 years. The UK came closer than any other in W Europe to losing the monopoly of violence within its territory since WW2 & was forced to engage in a peace agreement due to the actions of a paramilitary group. They are clearly madly exaggerating the level of intelligence penetration

[niallfraser]

I simply cannot believe this guy's story.

[zeddeka]

One of the most interesting stories to come out of the dirty war is the use of psy ops by the British Security Services. From the 1960s to the 1980s, there was a real social interest in the paranormal and the occult. Lots of TV shows covered it It was the era of satanic panics and Uri Geller bending spoons on TV. Northern Ireland was a highly religious area, and was therefore easy to manipulate in certain ways. The British security services were concerned that kids on the street at night in Belfast may compromise their operations. The kids may have spotted their agents moving about. So the security services decided to start their own "satanic panic". They found a deserted warehouse in Belfast and planted items in it. They then tipped off the local press that it was all being used for Satanic rituals. It caused a huge panic in the local community, and they kept their kids in at night as a result.

[MarkH-vc]

There seems to be some major contradictions in this story particularly around the recruitment of stakeknife that were addressed in Richard O’Rawe’s book “steakknife”.

[thewesties]

The provos had more 🐀 🐀 than a Dublin sewer by the information shared in this podcast.

[FRM]

this interview is very basic, very intro level info ..: no insight, no nuggets or pearls

[gerardable]

re-churned, stating the obvious, boring.