How Ritual is Dependent upon the Arena: Pageau, Peterson and Vervaeke and the Arenic God

Upcoming TLC Events

Breakwater Festival Mannheim Germany October 27-29 2023

Convivium 2023: Poetry as Perception, November 17-18, Hector, AR

Join this channel to get access to perks:

All Amazon links here are part of the Amazon Affiliate Program. Amazon pays a small commission at no additional cost to you if you buy through one of the product links here.

Join this channel to get access to perks:
-Randos Level for Members Only Videos
-No Wait No Ads Level for Early access to upcoming videos
-Supporter Level for special Supporters Only Calendly Link

[hermanhale]

I was raised Catholic and we had festivals and parades and holy rituals - seemed like half the town was involved. Nobody ever told me things would go well for me or for anyone else if we did these rituals. It wasn't like animal sacrifice on the temple mount! The whole town did participate in Christmas, and that gave me, as a kid, a special feeling of well being. Not to mention we heard from friends and relatives far and wide who sent gifts of food, often. Too bad they wrecked Christmas and Easter since I was a kid.

[maggen_me]

As an artist and been around artists, - one thing you notice is that each has "their ritual" in regard to approach their work. Without that you are lost...maybe it comes out of kind of instinct...

[thefrozentexan]

Ritual can become an idol like anything else. If it becomes an end in and of itself it ceases to point beyond itself to the meaning. I think this is what the seeker movement deemed “dead ritual”.

[TheDrb]

It’s interesting how the greatest boxer of all time was able to take away procedural knowing or muscle memory with propositions or talking smack. Ali could get into opponents head and completely take away their game plan.

[NornIronMan.]

Just watched Jonathan's video on the way into work this morning so it was nice to hear your take Paul. My wife caught a bit of this in the car with me and didn't immediately yell at me to turn it off so that was a pleasant surprise. Maybe I'll convert her to TLC eventually if I can find more videos that are as clear and helpful as this one from from Jonathan. Pleased to see you caught the Peter Hitchins video too it made me laugh. The most polite fight ever at the end. How very dare you you young scallywag I should be most terribly upset if you post this.

[StephensCrazyHour]

The great discovery of the sexual revolution was that transgression gives power. The problem is that transgressing against the Dao is always at the expense of the future. Our whole culture has spent three generations in transgression and that will result in pain and destruction until there is a snap back to the Dao.

[WhiteStoneName]

16:40 Michael Polanyi said there were three basic assumptions about modernist knowledge/

•all knowledge is focal
•exhaustively explicit (vs tacit)
•articulable (able to be out into words)

[UpCycleClub]

Thank you so much for covering this video by Jonathan. Your analyses and insights are always top-notch. You have a great way of disseminating complex topics. 🙏

[resilientrecoveryministries]

Rituals are a huge part of addiction. Right now, i am trying to imagine what rituals might be appropriate for a recovery meeting and for a larger life.

[JamesDixonMusic]

Just rewatched Apocalypto...and it synchronises perfectly sandwiched between both these videos of yours and JP's. I noticed this time round that the the film is dedicated to ABEL!! check it out in the credits, no joke...I was thinking about Cain and Abel at several points in the film but I'm used to that having my relevance realisation function dialled in with this little corner and Peterson etc, but still at the end to see that this film (which I was randomly compelled to watch last night) was centered around how over ritualisation when isolated from the garden leads to a fall....AND that this piece of art was dedicated to ABEL!!!! I could write an essay about this but I'll leave it here. I don't know about you PVK but this made me laugh and the hairs on my arms stand up at the same time. Relevance and timing

[umiluv]

I find it sad that we’ve lost this understanding so much so that we have to explain the importance of ritual and tradition. Though, it is a good thing to intellectually know why rituals are beneficial instead of just intuitively knowing they are.

[ChadTheGirlDad]

48:38 makes me think of a mine shaft with an air passage once it’s opened and cleared of debris air can flow through and the suffering might survive better until they find the surface.

[mostlynotworking]

38:45 from orderly singular martial arts to MMA. The most influential podcast host is an MMA practitioner/commentator. And needs to get Pageau on after JBP multiple mentions

[benjaminfranklin]

I have a hypothesis.

But, before I say the hypothesis, which is propositional, I want to say something about propositions: Maybe there are different levels of propositions. Certain propositions can be kind of dogmatic. For example, suppose you pose a proposition and don't base it on anything else and you have to take it as a matter of faith, that can be a kind of dogmatic proposition. It's not specifically a religious thing. I think nowadays we have bound up faith and dogma and religion together. But, I've observed that a lot of ideologies apply this kind of faith and dogma without knowing it, but they cover it up with something called "nature" or "natural", or "natural law" etc.

I'm not saying its a lie, there may be something to it, but my pov is that they are not penetrating deep enough into the matter. If you penetrate a little deeper maybe you begin to realize that our average desires are out of our control, and maybe desires are a kind of technology that is developed over time by evolution. Objects that had particular desires were better at passing on their information inter-generationally. The feeling of pain, and maybe the sense of good smells and bad smells may have evolved to pull us towards and away from events and objects. Even the feeling of play may have evolved, and perhaps that feeling is the base rudiments for the pursuit of truth etc.

The underlying phenomena may be being covered over by dogmatic propositions and final abstractions like "natural law". But, if you try to explore the underlying phenomena of the underlying phenomena, or maybe the underlying phenomena of that, maybe you will ultimately hit a brick wall and you have to say I can't go any further in exploration.

---

The hypothesis is that maybe rituals and repetitive motions were historically a way to transfer information across generations. In the modern world we have a lot of nice technologies that facilitate information transfer, even a common language is a kind of technology. Following from the development of a common language there is the written language, the printing press, and finally information stored in bits on a harddrive. We are spoiled with great record keeping technologies. But, it wasn't the case throughout most of history.

Even with great record keeping technologies, the information can be lost inter-generationally if it is not attended to. So rituals may be a way to divert and hold attention on certain information that is important.

Furthermore, certain stories can be so complex that maybe you have to repeat the story over and over again in the hope that the (perhaps propositional) morals underneath shine through. In a shared and enduring ritual, each individual is simultaneously a record keeper through his practices (imagine the analogy of the ritual practices being bits in a harddrive), and an interpreter of the data. Maybe there are individual good interpreters of the data, or bad interpreters. But, even a bad interpreter, so long as he's performing the ritual correctly, still has the function of being a vector of information storage and transfer.

The interpretation is not the important thing in the ordeal, maybe the interpretations can be lost and rediscovered over generations as long as the record, in the form of the ritual, is maintained in the whole.

Finally, notice a kind of ritual that all humans share in common (not just all humans). The ritual of being born, and the ritual of dying. Maybe it is not a conscious ritual, but there can arise into memory or attention the consciousness of that ritual. And, maybe that arising can be a source of a recognition of a profound brotherhood.

[buglepong]

i am reminded of elite secret society conspiracy theories. if ritual is powerful, then these societies exist.

[anselman]

It is clear from the New Testament that Christ instituted specific sacraments of Baptism ( with the use of water and a form of words) and Holy Communion (with the use of bread and wine and a form of words), and that His Apostles practised laying on of hands, confession and anointing of the sick with oil. What is not known is how much of the detail of the traditional performance of these rites was taught by the Apostles and how much originated from the Spirit-led decisions of their successors in their various regions and cultures. The question then is how much liberty Christ gives to the various gatherings of His universal Church to develop different ways of administering the sacraments, and different additional rituals. One thing that is troubling about much of Protestantism is the tendency to undermine confidence in the sacraments. For example, the pre-Reformation Church held that Baptism effected regeneration, whereas many Protestants separate out regeneration from baptism, some even affirming that water baptism is unnecessary. The Church of England office of baptism, true to the Catholic (and I would say Scriptural) position, affirms that the baptized person is regenerate, whereas the Calvinists baptize always with the doubt that the person being baptized might be one whom God has determined before they were created should never receive the grace of regeneration. Compare the Book of Common Prayer baptism rite with the Westminster Confession of Faith paragraph on baptism. The Catholic (I mean in the proper sense of the word, not restricting it to Roman Catholicism) seems always to have been that there is a real imparting of grace in the sacraments, but Protestants have tended to disagree among themselves in the extent to which they reject that teaching of the straightforward efficacy of sacraments. In the Calvinist camp it does seem to come down to their dogma that God has decided to reprobate some individuals "from all eternity". I contend against that, that God gives sufficient grace to every person to be able to attain salvation if they will to cooperate with God's grace.

[MRKetter]

God works in mysterious ways, but it is our hope that if we keep following Him there is victory over our pains, griefs and death it self.

[quentissential]

This video was helpful. Communicating this to others by word alone is hard... It's much easier to just do it and let your art/action speak for itself.

I was at a men's conference earlier this year and the speaker said, "The family's purpose is to catechize". It was then followed with a laundry list of things to do that could improve the catechism of your family, as a father. Total TEDtalk vibes with a Christian veneer to really drive the conviction home for the religious crowd. We walked away with all the burden and weight of having a lot to do. A sense of, 'if I'm not doing this stuff, or doing it right then my family is not fulfilling God's purpose and intended design and failure is on the horizon. I need to step up and lead, take charge, top-down.'

All well and fair, but the framing was lacking an important piece and I had a hard time communicating what it was to my fellows. It was the bottom-up that the message was largely silent towards (cognizant or not I don't know). It was missing something like, "A family WILL catechize its members irregardless of your active and conscious participation. So don't be passive. Become aware of this bottom-up process and mediate it towards a vision. This will support the top-down confessional and revelation of the ideal catechism."

I'm thankful for the world TLC and JBP cracked open, but at other times it is exhausting to keep noticing a world struggling to live via 'propositional tyranny...', as Vervaeke says, '...a world largely silent towards it's underlying ways of knowing, the non-propositional'.

[quentissential]

You need to do the video on confessionality! 'Well-balanced statements derived from reliable sources' are highly valued today, but they are only half the battle. Behavior is also a revelation of what we ACTUALLY confess. I think Romans 10 gets on about this... the active word of mouth and the passive trust of heart. It's entering Vervaeke's 'flow-state' to increasingly tighten the feedback loop (reciprocally open?) between 'telling the truth' (by mouth, by language, by confessional ideals and propositions) and 'at least not lying' (by heart, by behavior, by the non-propositional, whatever can't be communicated via text and language).

[JosefSvenningsson]

A way to justify talking about animals and looking at their behaviour is to say that this is a pattern that applies to large part of creation, not just the human realm. That shouldn't be controversial.