3rd Level Spells: The Treantmonk Variant

My variant for Third Level Spells. I take the spells that we all avoid or argue about and reset them to make their intent clear and to balance them against other spells of the same level.

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Fantasy grounds adaptation of the Variants

[TreantmonksTemple]

In the vid I mentioned lightning arrow requiring concentration, note that I removed concentration from the variant, mentioning it was in error.
Change Log: To Vampiric Touch: and you recover hit points equal to half the amount of necrotic damage dealt, once your full hit points are restored, any additional points are added as temporary hit points.
To Glyph of Warding: The spell must target a single creature or an area and have an effect that is detrimental to the target. (replaces "harmful spell")

[goatmeal]

I think Call Lightning should have language that specifies it can damage objects/structures, like a lightning bolt should. I have used it to great effect as an out-of-combat utility spell for damaging structures, with the 10 minute duration dealing 300d10 lightning damage to blow apart wooden doors and walls, or melt metal ones, according to reasonable DM discretion. But I just checked the wording and it only specifies creatures taking damage, just like moonbeam (which I think of as a more soul-searing effect, which SHOULD only damage creatures).

[DarthRamzes]

Strahd sees your Daylight fix and weeps in the corner of his castle.

[Adurnis]

Gonna be honest, I went through the document before the video and couldn’t pick out many of the changes to the PHb. So many times I would read the updated parts and think, “Yeah, that’s how it already works, isn’t it?” These are extremely appropriate changes.

[DuBMaNiaK]

I would also add an upcast for feign death:
At 5th level the max duration is 1 week
At 7th level it becomes a year
At 9 th level it becomes until dispeled or until a certain event occur
It would also add some nice possibilites for narrative!

[digtech]

Bad names for Teantmonk's new supplement.
1: the Optinomicon
2: Teants Monks and Temples or TMNT

[squarepusherz]

I can't wait for you to release the whole variant for purchase. I'll be excited to buy a copy!

[lord]

For feign death, alternatively you could change the number of creatures it could effect to something like 4 - 6.

[thertsman]

harmful spell is too loose a term for glyph of warding.

[jiiaga]

I think this is why daylight doesn't actually create sunlight, otherwise it would be called sunlight. I would change this spell to implicitly be something most effective against undead and just let it be - Let it function as is, but also inflict sunlight sensitivity on undead which enter its radius of bright light. Creating sunlight and all of its effects has always been associated with higher level spells.

[rwulf]

Unfortunately this fix on glyph of warding arguably prevents it from working with forcecage, which was my favorite way to use it and was clearly within the original spirit of the spell; “harmful” is sadly a bit vague

[lord]

I feel like Conjure Barrage has several ways it could be improved rather than just boosting its base damage. Imho, it would have been better changed to an attack roll against each creature in range, rather than a dex save, and let it crit. The spell is crafted as written as kind of an answer for swarms of weak creatures. If you want it to be more versatile against a single or a few opponents, you could add that for every size category above medium, an effected creature takes 1 additional hit from the swarm of projectiles. Then you have some single target damage scaling if you feel you need it.

[lord]

The negatives for vampiric touch are: Its concentration, it doesn't do enough damage, and if you are at full health a large amount of the effect is lost. If you are going to change it, then address those issues - Make it a single action non-concentration spell. Scale it appropriately for a single target 3rd level spell. Allow half the damage dealt to be healing, with any overrun becoming temporary hit points. There, it is fixed.

[migueldelmazo]

Great video, but if you keep making it improvements to rangers you'll take away a major part of role-playing a ranger. Namely, you'll destroy their major quest line of "travel to the ends of the material plane to try and discover why anyone would choose to play a ranger".

[clenzen]

You mentioned a possible price involved down the line to pay for design. No problems from me, I think it's a great idea. Please consider a Kickstarter so know ahead of time what kind of budget you have. The downside is a Kickstarter can be a lot of work to do it right. But I thought I'd bring it up.


I think vampiric touch should have the option to heal. Sometimes I want to restore my real HP over getting temp HP (which don't stack).

[kidevuojarvi]

So, is Polymorph considered "harmful"? The term is a bit too vague for my taste :/

[ChristnThms]

I essentially agree with all of your criticisms and solutions. But I think you overplayed the strength of Moonbeam, and underplayed the strength of Hunger of Hadar.

Moonbeam is a CON save, and you can't move it nearly as far. Thus, for equal dice values, it can expect more saves and so less damage AS WELL AS not being able to target as many enemies. I agree with your improvement to Call Lightning. But disagree that Moonbeam was ever as good as.

With Hunger of Hadar, I've used it extensively as an area denial spell, to devastating effect. Sure, I like your improvement. But I never felt like it was weak to begin with. The damage is ok, but the are is great and I can force any casters in it to make 2 concentration saves every round. When viewed as a blast spell, it may seem weak. When viewed as a control+utility +damage spell, it looks a lot better.

[scottcalnan]

This is really more a personal opinion than something I've crunched numbers on, but would it really push Vampiric touch over the edge if it healed HP up to max, and then gave temp HP after? Since Temp HP doesn't stack, it shouldn't be able to be abused, but still allow the necromancer to knit themselves together if they need to, and have a reason to maintain concentration on the spell if they manage regain all their HP with a crit or otherwise.

[gasparcontino]

I found strange that you give it Bestow Curse a red (1 star) in the 3rd level wizards spells video, and don't make any modifications of that spell here.

[elementzero]

Maybe defining "harmful" as a spell that "inflicts damage or provokes a saving throw" would be helpful? I'm not sure if this completely closes the loophole, but it feels like this language would capture your intent.