What's Wrong with Penal Substitution? | Ask Me Anything

Catholic Answers Live, August 29, 2024 Hour 1

QUESTIONS ASKED:
00:00 - Introduction
02:16 - Weird Q: Regarding the show Eureka, Can synthetic water be made and can it be blessed?
12:41 - How do I deal with my parents not believing in certain teachings of the Church and can they receive communion?
22:20 - TITLE QUESTION: What’s the Catholic alternative to penal substitution?
33:20 - Who asked you to worship on Sunday? It’s not the Sabbath, it’s the day of the sun god worshipped by Rome.
34:49 - How did the Dominican, Ambrosian etc. rites of the liturgy come to be?
38:01 - Is it bad to drink holy water or to wash your face with it?
42:47 - How do we act as a child of God without falling into scrupulosity?
47:55 - Is a priest allowed to restrict you from communion as a penance even if he gave you absolution?
52:06 - Is it true that anyone you become conscious of a sin you must repent immediately or else you commit an additional sin?

[orangutan]

Jimmy the Brilliant does it yet again! Thank you for your clear, concise teaching. Every blessing to you Jimmy.

[startraveler]

Jimmy's explanation of the penal substitution was absolutely amazing. After consideration of how he explained it, feel at peace.

[bencook]

About Sunday worship, the point about other languages is good. In Russian (only non-english language i know), it's воскресенье, resurrection day. Always thought that was cool.

[Lovecatholicfaith]

32:08 it was brilliant answer! It was easy to understand!

[nanagaga]

I remember reading a short mystery story where heavy water was used as the murder weapon. The wife was a runner and drank lots of water, the husband replaced her normal water in their home water dispenser with heavy water. She was constantly thirsty even though she drank lots of water, not realizing it was killing her.

[josh]

I like the recapitulation theory of atonement

[stephenbastasch]

Thanks for the great debunking of the evil, nasty Calvinist penal substitution theory. I never can understand how and why a supposedly compassionate God could ever be conceived as utilizing such a wicked system...

[EggShen]

About Thomas' question: it's one thing to say his parents don't understand or haven't been taught the correct teachings, and it's possible -- though rare -- for adults to literally read the teachings of the Church, have them explained, and yet still not understand sufficiently to compel them to do what is required. But if his parents are obstinately refusing to accept teachings of the Church about regular weekly attendance and confession, teachings which has been adequately demonstrated to them, well then that's a grave matter, of which they would have full knowledge and consent. If Thomas hasn't shown them the catechism on these issues, he should start there. If, after doing so, his parents continue to refuse to accept it, then he should at least have them meet with the priest, and then let the priest make the decision about denying communion. After all, if others know that Thomas' parents are choosing not to follow the requirements and yet are still given communion, that's scandal that must be avoided.

[MrMustang]

The second question about letting the guys parents take communion even though they don’t go to confession, makes me uncomfortable because my parents are in the same boat and I’ve had that conversation with them many times but now I feel like I shouldn’t have if they’re now at risk of being in mortal sin because I said something to them about it.

[LEGIOUSIAM]

what kind of shampoo do you use on your beard ?





😳

[jellyphase]

William Lane Craig has a fantastic book/material that defends penal substitution as one facet of the atonement. Like Jimmy says, it’s not the only theme of the atonement, but it definitely is a theme.

Jimmy is incorrect on his point about the theme being found in one place in Isaiah. That’s pretty easily refuted by looking up the view.

[jackhohne]

Doesn’t St Alphonsus and St Thomas, and St Fulgentius, teach PSA?

[LuisPerez-cf]

I would like to know how sacrifice intended as a gift is connected with the forgiveness of sins. Is the sacrifice a gift to just show good will or are there other aspects?

I agree with Jimmy Akin that the penal substitution model has very serious problems. If Jesus already suffered punishment on the cross for the sins of the world, why does God still condemn? What is the point of punishing Jesus and then punishing the person for whom Jesus has already suffered?
From this point of view, the only "logical" position is the Calvinist one which maintains that Jesus died only for the elect. But this position conflicts with the clear biblical testimony. Furthermore, the Bible presents Jesus' death as an act of God's love, not as an act of punishment.

[lebell]

about penal substitution: Christ taught us that there's no greater love than to lay one's life down for their friends.
that imo is the crucifixion.
also notice the 'for their friends' part.
make sure you're His friend.