Dr. Robin Carhart-Harris: The Science of Psychedelics for Mental Health | Huberman Lab Podcast

In this episode, my guest is Robin Carhart-Harris, PhD, distinguished professor of neurology and psychiatry at the University of California, San Francisco. He is one of leading researchers in the study of how psychedelics such as psilocybin, LSD and DMT can change the human brain and in doing so, be used to successfully treat various mental health challenges such as major depression, anorexia, obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) and addiction. He explains how psilocybin induces sustained changes in adaptive brain wiring and cognition. We discuss the key components of safe and effective psychedelic journeys, the role of hallucinations, the use of eye-masks to encourage people to “go internal,” and music, as well as what effective therapist support consists of before, during and after the session (also known as integration). We discuss micodosing vs. macrodosing and how researchers control for placebo effects in psychedelic research. We also discuss the current legal landscape around psychedelic therapies. Psychedelic therapies are fast emerging as powerful and soon-to-be mainstream treatments for medical health disorders, but they are not without their risks. As such, this episode ought to be of use to anyone interested in brain plasticity, mental health, psychology or neuroscience.

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Dr. Robin Carhart-Harris

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Timestamps
00:00:00 Dr. Robin Carhart-Harris
00:02:12 Sponsors: Eight Sleep, Levels, HVMN
00:05:41 The Brain-Body Contract
00:06:31 Origin of the Word: “Psychedelics”; Pharmacology
00:12:05 Psychedelics & Revealing the Unconscious Mind, Psychotherapy
00:17:32 Microdosing
00:26:08 Psilocybin vs. Magic Mushroom Doses
00:28:28 “Psychedelic-Therapy”, Music
00:35:12 Sponsor: AG1 (Athletic Greens)
00:36:26 Psychedelic Journey: “Trust, Let Go, Be Open”
00:43:01 Negative Emotions, Fear & Psychedelics
00:46:21 Global Functional Connectivity, Serotonin 2A Receptor; Subjective Experiences
00:52:33 Pharmacology: Therapeutics without Psychedelic Effects; SSRIs
00:58:45 Psilocybin & Depression; Long-Term Effects: Connectivity & Neuroplasticity
01:09:14 Sponsor: LMNT
01:10:26 Psilocybin Therapy & Anorexia
01:12:56 Integration Phase & Psychedelic-Therapy; Meditation
01:19:50 First-Time Psychedelic Use, “Entropic Brain Effect”, Neuroplasticity, Cognition
01:30:16 Fibromyalgia & Psychedelic Treatment; MDMA Therapy & “Inner Healer”
01:38:55 Placebo Response & Psychedelic Therapy
01:41:39 LSD & Psychedelic-Therapy, Micro-Dose
01:48:19 Combination Psilocybin-MDMA Therapy
01:56:06 DMT “Rocketship” & Serotonin 2A Receptors; Ibogaine
02:01:04 “Ego Dissolution”, Cocaine vs. Psychedelics; Relapses
02:12:26 Psychedelics & Legal Landscape; Decriminalization
02:17:54 MDMA, Trauma & Clinical Trials; Future Regulatory (FDA) Approval?
02:23:25 Psilocybin & Current Clinical Trials
02:28:41 Mental Health & Psychedelic Treatment, Safeguards, Paradigm Shift
02:34:39 Zero-Cost Support, YouTube Feedback, Spotify & Apple Reviews, Sponsors, Momentous, Social Media, Neural Network Newsletter

[hubermanlab]

Please put any comments or questions and suggestions for topics you would like me to cover on the podcast as well as guests you would like me to include, here in the comments section. Thank you for your interest in science!

[JohnGeorge-pwxo]

Shrooms did wonders in my life. I'm a veteran, was actually addicted to alcohol and cigarettes. Alcohol and cigarettes addiction destroyed my life, i suffered severe depression and mental disorder. Got diagnosed with cptsd. Not until my wife recommended me to psilocybin mushrooms treatment. Psilocybin treatment saved my life honestly. 8 years totally clean. Much respect to mother nature the great magic shrooms.

[labsanta]

My Takeaways: *"Dr. Huberman, your immense inspiration, unwavering discipline, and excellence deeply impact and inspire me. Thank you!"
Psilocybin can alleviate major depression in over 67% of people:
- Psychedelics have the potential to treat psychiatric conditions more effectively than standard treatments.
- Participate in well-designed clinical trials to evaluate psychedelic therapies. Ensure treatments are administered safely and ethically.
0:32

Higher psilocybin doses between 10-25 milligrams can induce hallucinations:
- Higher doses are required to produce a full psychedelic experience.
- Do not attempt to self-dose with psychedelics. Leave dosage calibration to trained professionals in clinical settings.
5:52

Studies show a relationship between psychedelic experiences and better outcomes:
- The quality of the psychedelic experience correlates with therapeutic benefits.
- Ensure set (mindset) and setting (environment) are optimized for a positive experience during psychedelic therapy sessions.
10:25

Increased brain connectivity has been observed after psychedelic sessions:
-: Neuroplastic changes may underlie some long-term mental health improvements.
-: Participate in research studies to better understand how psychedelics impact the brain.
23:40

'Integration work' after sessions helps consolidate benefits over time:
-: Ongoing practices can support insights gained during psychedelic experiences.
-: Engage in psychotherapy, journaling, and contemplative practices to integrate psychedelic insights into daily life.
34:50

Psilocybin therapy typically involves two sessions with doses between 10-25 milligrams:
-: Repeated dosing spaced 1-3 weeks apart is commonly used in psychedelic therapy protocols.
-: Participate in well-designed clinical trials using evidence-based psychedelic therapy protocols.
44:55

Ego dissolution refers to the temporary loss of one's sense of self during psychedelic experiences:
-: Psychedelics can alter concepts of self and boundaries.
-: Practice mindfulness and embrace ego-dissolution experiences with courage and openness.
49:55

Studies found increases in brain connectivity, white matter changes after one high dose session:
-: Even a single psychedelic session can produce neuroplastic changes.
-: Participate in rigorous clinical research studies.
1:10:09

DMT produces an extremely intense experience due to its high affinity for serotonin 2A receptors:
-: DMT is a very potent psychedelic compound.
-: Avoid unsupervised use of DMT and other potent psychedelics.
1:20:19

Microdosing psychedelics has not shown compelling benefits though larger studies are needed:

Principle: Higher doses in controlled settings may be more promising than microdosing.
Tactics: Evaluate evidence from unbiased sources before adopting microdosing practices.
1:22:48

Preliminary results for psilocybin therapy for conditions like anorexia and fibromyalgia are promising:
-: Psychedelics show potential for treating a wide range of conditions.
-: Participate in rigorous clinical trials to advance psychedelic research.
1:28:41

MDMA therapy for PTSD is furthest along in FDA approval process; psilocybin approval is years away:
-: Psychedelic research progresses at different speeds for different conditions and compounds.
-: Support scientific and legislative efforts to advance psychedelic medicine responsibly.
2:09:03

Pearls:

Part 1 (00:00 - 1:00:03):

An introduction to the discussion by Andrew Huberman. He introduces Dr. Carhart-Harris and his research on psychedelics.

Dr. Carhart-Harris provides context on the history, meaning, and definition of the term 'psychedelics'. He discusses how they work by activating the serotonin 2A receptor and increasing connectivity between brain regions.

They discuss studies showing that psilocybin can help treat depression, the dosages used, and what patients typically experience during psychedelic therapy sessions. The importance of factors like set, setting, and music is highlighted.

Part 2 (1:00:03 - 2:34:47):

They discuss ego dissolution and how psychedelics may reveal aspects of the unconscious mind.

Dr. Carhart-Harris provides details on studies involving LSD, DMT, fibromyalgia, and first-time psychedelic users.

They discuss microdosing vs. macrodosing psychedelics, combination psychedelic therapies, and the importance of integration work after psychedelic journeys.

The current state of psychedelic research, FDA approvals, and emerging startups in the field are covered. MDMA therapy for PTSD is further along than psilocybin therapy for depression.

Andrew thanks Dr. Carhart-Harris for his work and passion for advancing this field in a safe and ethical manner.
Dr. Carhart-Harris is a pioneer in studying how psychedelics like psilocybin can be used to treat psychiatric conditions like depression.

Psychedelics work by activating the serotonin 2A receptor in the brain, which increases communication between brain regions and alters neural activity.

Studies show that psilocybin can help alleviate depression in over 60-70% of patients, far more effectively than standard antidepressants.

Psychedelic therapies involve taking higher doses of psychedelics in controlled clinical settings with therapists and music. Self-administering psychedelics recreationally is risky.

Psychedelic experiences can lead to ego dissolution, insights, and increased feelings of interconnectedness. However, the effects do not last after the drug wears off. Ongoing integration work is needed.

Clinical trials are underway to explore using psychedelics to treat other conditions like anorexia, fibromyalgia, and trauma. Preliminary results are promising but more research is needed.

MDMA-assisted therapy is further along in the FDA approval process and could be approved for treating PTSD as early as next year. Psilocybin approval for depression is still several years away.

There are concerns about bad practices, scandals, and ensuring psychedelic therapies are conducted properly and safely as this field grows.

[MichealDavid-ljod]

could remember several years ago I was diagnosed with ADHD. Also suffered severe depression and mental disorder. Not until my mom recommended me to psilocybin mushrooms treatment. Psilocybin treatment saved my life honestly. 8 years totally clean. Never thought I would be saying this about mushrooms.

[Jennifer-bwku]

Psychedelics are just an exceptional mental health breakthrough. It's quite fascinating how effective they are against depression and anxiety. Saved my life.

[mattcox]

A ton of Respect to Dr. Huberman and his team for presenting topics considered "controversial" such as Psychedelics to his rapidly-growing fanbase. This Channel will eventually be a database for all aspects of physical and Mental Health.

Thank you Dr. Huberman, those cold showers will never be easy, but the effects throughout the day will Always be worth it.

[nybergjm]

Please have a discussion with Roland Griffiths, who was really the true pioneer of sparking research on psychedelics and mental health. He has terminal cancer and so there is a limited window to really talk with him and honor what he has done.

[TimTalley]

Psychedelic mushrooms really healed me years back. Totally got rid of depression, anxiety and illicit pill addiction.

[joeymcbain]

What Andrew is doing, giving free practical knowledge that can change one's life, perhaps save life, has made America great. Wish you all the best, sir

[JesseScott-pckb]

Psilocybin saved me from years of uncontrollable depression, anxiety and illicit pill addiction. Imagine carrying heavy chains for over a decade and then all of a sudden that burden is gone. Believe it or not in a couple years the be all over for treatment of mental health related issues.

[zarkos]

Psilocybin saved my life. I was addicted to heroin for 15 years and after Psilocybin treatment I will be 3 years clean in September. I have zero cravings.
This is something that truly needs to be more broadly used in addiction treatment.

[TommyTarot]

So glad to see Dr Carhart-Harris. His work is so important and groundbreaking.

[reawilkinson]

I am literally crying watching this. I am 61 and have suffered major depression most of my life. I desperately need to find a study in Canada.

[stepsbeyondtheeventhorizon]

I was on the brink of taking my own life twice in the past 8 years, and both times what saved me from the bottomless pit of anguish and despair I had found myself in was LSD. Psychedelics are the paradigm shift that can save humanity. The work of people like Dr. Carhart-Harris is probably some of the most important work that's being done in academia right now. Thank you so much for this phenomenal episode.

[guadalupesepulveda]

Psychedelics are the next frontier for the world's PEACE, it is so important to educate about the positive effects of the dissolution of the ego - and talk about psychedelics! (they changed my life too - eternally grateful). Greetings from Chile and many, many thanks Andrew and Robin for this amazing episode.

[BeastGanon]

Please do an episode on development of babies and children. I would really like to hear more on how the brain and behavior develops and use these to raise my child in better ways. Thank you Andrew Huberman!

[AvarusVentus]

Thank You, greetings from Slovakia. I am on the second "round" of microdosing, such a relief after years of struggling with anxiety, depression, sleepless nights (i didnt know i was not sleeping well for over a five years) due to a thyroid issues (graves)...my life is changed for better. It is important for people to know.

[mrSamooo]

I don't know if people realise it, but this is revolutionary stuff. One of my favourite conversations that you've had on the podcast thus far!

[Vaneheath]

I am so grateful for you Mr Huberman, for your time and effort into making this enlightening content. 🙏

[AJHillhiker]

Please interview Paul Stamets on his findings on the effect of psilocybin on tinnitus. Thank you for offering so much rich and detailed teaching for free.