Was There REALLY a War in Heaven Before Creation?

Do we ever, through our tradition, take things out of context? I mean, we ignore context a lot, and sometimes our out-of-context stuff becomes doctrine. My favorite example is this one, «A third of the angels rebel.» You can easily find it if you just Google "a third of the angels rebellion" or something like that. You're going to get stories about how Satan took a third of the angels with him before the fall or maybe before creation, or before this or that. Something primeval. Well, the problem is, there isn't a single verse in Scripture that actually says that. Check this out!

[DRMSH]

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[jtaylor]

Dr H, I've kept you in my intercessory prayers with the utmost fervency as to your recovery sir. Thank You for your wisdom from YAHUAH. Your truly a blessing sir. I PRAY JUDE 2 🙏 OVER YOU AND YOURS

[artladi]

We are begging the Lord for your healing. We need you, brother. Thank you for your devotion and teaching us your insights. Lord Jesus, we beseech You, Mighty Savior, heal your servant to continue in Your Service. In Jesus' Powerful Name, amen.

[ronwilliams]

Mark Twain is often credited with a variation of this: “It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Such as with this and other bible beliefs. Given the truth in Twain's statement, you'd be surprised at what you'd learn is true by actually reading the bible word for word and let the text be the text. So often I have had individuals argue either for or against a doctrine attempting to use scripture they knew for sure was in the text that proved them to be correct but was actually MIA from Gen to Rev!

[Serpents_and_Doves]

I was raised being told exactly what you pointed out. The devil fell and took 1/3 of the angels with him, like he has 1/3 of the host serving as his personal army or something. I struggled to understand where we got the notion when I didn't find it elsewhere in the bible.

[ProphetsAmongUs]

A third of the angels did rebel with Satan and were kicked out of the 7th Heaven, and there will be another war soon that throws them down to the earth.

[smc]

That was just getting good! I'd like to see the entire lecture.

[robynbaker]

So glad you make me think Mike hope you are recovering well🙏😊

[EstebanGunn]

I was told as a child that Satan left with 1/3 of the angels. Makes me wonder what else isn't in the Bible that we assume is there.

[Bildad]

Love ya, Dr. Heiser, but I think you dismiss too easily the idea of a war in Heaven where Satan and his angels are thrown down to the Earth.
Additionally, the idea that the "third of the stars of heaven (that were) cast down to the earth being angels is not an unreasonable interpretation, as Job 38:7 describes spirit beings as stars ("When the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?").
So, looking at the passage in Revelation 12:3-4a
"And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems. His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth."
AND verses 7-9>
"Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back,  but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him."
Doesn't seem like an unreasonable interpretation, but I've been wrong many times, so instead of just denigrating this interpretation, please tell us why this interpretation is wrong.
Thanks!

[SoliDeoGloria]

Just because Dr Michael says it doesn’t mean you should believe it so quickly. Read all of Revelation 12 and you will see why the traditional teaching is popular.

[Michael_the_Servant]

I have to say this is one of the very few times I disagree with Dr. Heiser. He is both correct and incorrect on different parts of this topic.

The 1/3 is incorrectly assumed to be satan’s angels.

Clearly Revelation 12:3-9 talks about Angels being cast out of Heaven, but I think since most don’t understand what is being said in Revelation, let alone Revelation 12, they don’t grasp it.

Revelation 12:4 states satan casts out 1/3 of the Angels by his lies. Yes, tails refer to lies in old testament prophecy that John was copying.

THEN there is a war and satan and his Angels are cast out by Michael and his Angels, so many many Angel (stars) fall.

In my opinion, satan tried to usurp the throne and thought that while God was dwelling on Earth as Jesus for a long period, he might just be able to seize control.

This war in heaven basically ends during the time of Jesus’s birth and then His coming in the clouds at Jerusalem’s destruction at 70 AD, because Jesus was victorious for heaven Proving He (God) wasn’t dead, and the earthly victory is still to come, at his Return.

There are at least 3 different sets of Angels in Revelation 12. Those that were deceived by satan, those who were fighting on satan’s side, and those fighting on Michael’s side.

After the war, Jesus sends Angels to regather those who have been cast out by satan, and to anyone that is willing to accept that God lives.

Zechariah 13:9 speaks of the 1/3 that is brought through the fire after the smiting of the shepherd (Jesus).

This world is the Furnace of Affliction and by the Refiner’s fire, thus we are being Refined and Tried.

Jesus stated in Mark 13:25-27 that the Stars (Angels) would Fall. They would see Him in the clouds, and he would send Angels to gather His elect, in that order.

We saw exactly that in Revelation 14.

[michaelallsworth]

This is from Revelations 12, KJV, as referenced in the video:

"1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with."

No mention of the "dragon" devouring a 3rd of the host of heaven, or angels, but that they were cast out of heaven. The dragon, Satan, wants to devour the child, who is Christ, or in other words, Satan wants to stop the work of the Lord and prevent God's children from living with Him for eternity.

[c.w.miles-cowboycookstoryt]

You're in my prayers Dr. Mike and I thank you for the education I am now getting.

[fredcourtney]

Thank you for clarifying myth from truth. I understand that the Bible is truth. I admit I always believed the Paradise Lost view of creation. I did not know where it came from but after reading it a few months ago I realized that much of what I thought was Biblical, truly came from myth not truth.

[carolynnunes]

Short-n-to-the-point!
God bless you forevermore dearly beloved!
3 John 1:2
2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

[gaiusoctavius]

I find this video very ironic because I was just discussions Paradise Lost today on YouTube.

[Eightyproductions]

Anybody know where to see the entire lesson?

[jaimesalgado]

Would be nice to watch the full seminar

[HoneyBadger]

1:58

Eh, I've heard other interpretations of this text. Others have different interpolation of the identity of the Child and woman, but your also making an assumption around linear time.

Was not the lamb slain before the world was founded? Revelation is thought of as the end, and yet God for tells the end in the beginning.