FRM1: The Rear-Engine Routemaster Story [UK London Bus History]

In 1964, a collaboration of AEC, Park Royal and London Transport set out to design and build a new type of bus based on a proven design - a rear-engine Routemaster.

In July, 1966, the prototype was delivered to LT. It was well-accepted by staff and the riding public. But as no new grants were available for a London-specific bus, LT had to buy an "off-the-peg" bus to replace aging vehicles.

This led to the DMS Fleetline, which turned out to be something of a disaster for London Transport.

Would things have been different in the 1970s if London had a fleet of rear-engine Routemasters? We may never know, but quite possibly, it could have been.

See and hear the story of FRM1 - the rear-engine Routemaster!

*Special Note*: A number of the photos seen in this video of FRM1 can be found at:

*This is a documentary for educational purposes for bus enthusiasts about FRM1. Photos are used to educate, inform and to shed light on this one-of-a-kind bus that has not had a proper documentary...until now!*

#buses #londontransport #transportationhistory #transport #transportation #routemaster #routemastertoday

[jeffclark]

The 64, 000 dollar question, so many pros and cons for both sides, and it came down to who would be buying, It did have a good run, and was treated like royalty, then landed in a museum in the end, thumbs up, great video

[anthonywarrener]

Great video which I thoroughly enjoyed. You highlight all the relevant facts about the reason it was the only example built, and the merger of AEC with Leyland Motors was a real killer, and then British Leyland was formed.As you mentioned, Leyland had the Atlantean and Daimler Fleetline in production and didn’t want another competitor. Also the Bus Grant ruled it out, as it was not a production bus. However, I did ride on it several times when it was on Route 76 operating from Tottenham Garage, and it really was a lovely bus. The suspension was really good, and it rode as well as the standard Routemasters, something which no other rear engined buses did !
It’s good it is now preserved, and it appears at certain rallies. It really is worth a visit to have a ride !

[jon-paulfilkins]

1990-93 ish, she was parked out the back of Fulwell Bus Garage. There was a team there that was refurbishing busses for private sale and museums, I was working in the stores at the time. The story inside LT at the time was that politics that forced the DMS on LT rather than accept the FRM. The DMS was considered by the mechanics as a pig. It was difficult to work on, many parts you could not access without taking the engine out, this included many service parts and when you have a fleet rotor that needs them checked, possibly changed every 4 weeks, things pile up. They were also plagued with electrical and overheating problems. They were happy to be rid of them.

[justinhamilton]

I love the pronunciation of the London areas by Jeffrey. Another excellent video 😊

[mikehindson-evans]

Another excellent historical document - Kudos for your diligent research.

[Gideonsmythe]

I've had the pleasure of riding this beauty at a rally in the 1980s. And yes London's bus scene would have been different in the 80s as we wouldn't have needed all those Metrobuses and Titans. They would have likely started to be replaced by the end of the 90's which means there would have been a huge fleet of 10 year old step-entrance buses that would have been redundant within a decade, just like the Fleetlines but for different reasons. Excellent video sir.

As a Londoner, I applaud your pronunciations, you are free to ignore me and continue to use US versions but locally Chiswick is pronounced "Chi-sick", the "w" is silent, on this occasion, like Greenwich is pronounced "Gren-ich". UK English is sometimes baffling. Even to the English. ;-)

[dancedecker]

Excellent vidro aa usual Jeff, but I HAVE to take issue with you regarding the "DMS Debacle".
How it was dealt with within LT possibly, but the DMS itself was nothing like as bad as it has been painted.

Certainly, from my investigations, having owned and run many examples of DMS over the years, it basically came down to "If it's getting rid of an RM, we'll damn well MAKE sure it will fail."

There's a story that an LT engineering director was on holiday in Hong Kong and he visited CMB who ran hundreds of them, in ridiculous temperatures, conditions and loadings and asked his Hong Kong counterpart how their's lasted so long and performed so well.

He replied.. "Oh, that's easy. We make sure that we put oil and water in ours!!"

I think that says everything it needs to. Lol.

[icenijohn]

When I was a youngster growing up in Riddlesdown I rode FRM1 many times on the 234 service from Purley up the steep pull to Mitchley Avenue. I remember it being smoother riding, quieter, and generally more comfortable than RMs, and in a completely different league to the hard-riding rattly old RTs that were previously on the 234. At that time it may well have been LT's single best bus. I'm glad it's now preserved! Am I the only person in the USA (I now live in SoCal) that's actually ridden FRM1?

[jadeboswell-rzly]

I was in first year of my engineering apprenticeship in 1967 at Aldenham and remember that FRM1. Which was Chiswick's new flag ship. A couple of times it would come into Aldenham. But at the same time we would see two designs the XA and XF competing against each other for the outer London country regions. I seem remember that they came from East Grinstead garage. The FRM really was no match against them. XA's Atlanteans became the AN"s and went on to serve country surban areas and XF fleetline would become the DM/DMS. If one operation had been approved earlier maybe the FRM may have been a viable vehicle. To little to late. Such a beautiful looking vehicle.

[BerlietGBC]

In the late 90’s I was one of the guys that reactivated the bus to full class 6 standard and I drove her on many occasions, it had its issues with cooling and still dose the AV 691 also had issue with localised boiling within the engine and it’s basic design was the basis for the AV760 a much better engine, the steering can be a bit heavy at low speed but overall a great vehicle I drove her on the Routemaster 40 event with full loads all day, if it had been put into production I’m sure these problems would have been sorted out, my good friend Barry drive her at Potter Bar when she was there he loved the bus, he’s now in his 70’s and still bus diving . Sadly she was not out at the RM70 event last weekend due to cooling system problems

[daveash]

Fascinating video about my home town.

Quick tip from a lifelong Londoner though, Tottenham is pronounced 'Tot-nem' and Chiswick is pronounced 'Chiz-ick'.

Im certainly not criticising your delivery or your video so please take this comment as it was intended, as a little guidance on our oddly spelled town names.

I'm a new subscriber today!

[wharris]

Yay, titan B15 mentioned. My absolute favourite bus of all time. They had quite an interesting bit of history too, ongoing strikes, a lot of cancelled orders, etc, which is a shame as it was a great bus. It's good that the unique FRM1 still survives to this day. great video as always

[bobmmann]

Fascinating story, well researched and presented. I enjoyed this, nice job.

[kellypaws]

We started watching quite recently. We think the videos are great. Very relaxing viewing. More UK buses would be very welcome for us.

In particular, because of some personal / family connections, I'd love to see some videos on Albion buses. Scottish and more in the 30s and 40s period.

[kristinajendesen]

You should cover the best bus in the history of mankind Jeffrey, the original Routemaster. Highly advanced for their time in the late 50s with a fully automatic gearbox plus manual override, PAS and dual hydraulic brakes. Monocoque construction with two steel subframes. It was not unusual during maintenance at Aldenham for body snatches, different buses ending up on other RM subframes.
Brilliant to drive and I've driven many from a 1933 Leyland Tiger, ex Bournemouth Corporation to Leyland Titans, MCWs, Bristol VRs and many others
Routemasters will run rings around them all.
The RMA airport versions with their larger engines and higher ratio back axles could easily top 70mph on the M4 motorway although they were officially restricted to 50mph 😉 due to towing a trailer for the luggage, no tachos back then though.
The RMC Greenline coach versions also had a larger engine, high ratio back axle and more comfortable seating.
I learnt to drive on RMA & RMC training buses at Chiswick Works and Training Centre back in 1985. We also had the infamous skid pan there which was great fun 😁
Best training in the world and it was a big loss when they closed Chiswick. I have no doubt that the upturn in accidents is due to the training at the garages now not being half as good as it was at Chiswick.
They were evil bar****s those old ex army instructors but they got the best out of you.

[ROCKINGMAN]

Love the mini film on this type. First aware of it in a library book 'London Buses in Camera' by John A. Gray, which I borrowd a thousand times in the early 70's. Was surprised to see it in early 80's on the Round London Sightseeing Tour. Sadly, it was too little too late and LT didn't notice trends, namely Atlateans/Fleetlines and develop the FRM earlier. Thought if LT did go ahead with this model, they may have fitted a central exit door, like the DMS.

[Dannyg]

I love this unique bus. Glad the Titan B15 was mentioned it's my all time favourite bus.

[superted]

Another interesting vid. Bit of a stretch to suggest it was a success however. London Transport found the Swift/Merlin combo problematical, and, as you said, FRM 1 had a similar transmission layout. They may well have had similar problems with a bigger fleet of these.
The apparent failure of the DMS class ia another story, and probably says more about LT than the Fleetline, which operated happily elsewhere for many years, including those that were cast off early by LT.

[davidluck]

AEC ….. Gone but definitely NOT FORGOTTEN ❤️

[Eric_Hunt]

Great video, I agree that these probably would have been better than the DMSs, but as the saying goes hindsight is always 20/20!

As a general rule, English place names that end in "-wick" the w is usually silent- so "Chiswick" is pronounced "Chizzick". If you stick to that rule, you'll be right more than you're wrong!