Are Electric Cars Really Green?

Anti-EV advocates love to claim that electric cars still have a larger carbon footprint, but it just ain't so.

The debate over whether electric cars actually produce more greenhouse gases than internal combustion cars is actually a proxy debate between those who accept climate science and those on the side of the dying fossil fuel industry who want to turn the clock back. Their argument, intended to frighten you away from buying an EV, is that making the giant battery is such a dirty process that it outruns any savings from not burning gasoline, and that generating the electricity uses the same dirty fossil fuels anyway so there's nothing to be gained.

It's true that all the resources that go into mining and manufacturing EV batteries does mean that manufacturing EVs produces more greenhouse gases than internal combustion cars. Depending on the car and the size of the battery, the manufacture produces between 15 and 68 percent more greenhouse gases. But what they fail to note is that manufacturing is only one stage in a car's entire lifetime. And because of the fuel savings, by the end of the car's life, an EV has produced, in total, only 47 to 49 percent as much greenhouse gases as an internal combustion car.

So now let's look at the source of generating all that electricity, which the haters tell you makes EVs just as dirty. A great way to look at it is this map, produced by the Union of Concerned Scientists. Taking into account how electricity is generated in every region, it shows what equivalent miles per gallon electric cars are getting, based on the greenhouse gases produced by making the electricity. In the very worst places, it's still far better than the average internal combustion cars. Most places it's way better than that, and in some places, it's amazing. These numbers are 10% better than their map from two years ago, because the electric grid is getting cleaner all the time, so it's only going to continue looking better and better.

This much cleaner running of an EV is what turns the equation upside down and more than overcomes the extra greenhouse gases from the battery's manufacture.

Finally, there's the recycling of the EV battery at the end of the car's life. The haters will tell you the process is dangerous, expensive, and extremely polluting. The reason we know they're lying is that this doesn't really exist yet. Very few EVs have reached the end of their life, and all EV manufacturers are just starting to explore pilot programs with recycling partners. There's a tremendous amount of investment flowing into this, and it's an exciting growth industry, so you college kids look into it. All expectations are that recovering the valuable materials from EV batteries will be both profitable and carbon neutral.

So, enjoy your EV, and don't listen to yesterday's news.

REFERENCES & FURTHER READING

Nealer, R., Reichmuth, D., Anair, D. Cleaner Cars from Cradle to Grave: How Electric Cars Beat Gasoline Cars on Lifetime Global Warming Emissions. Cambridge: Union of Concerned Scientists, 2015.

[EscepticoHumanistaUU]

I would hesitate to use the Union of Concerned Scientists as a reliable source. They also engage in anti-scientific attitudes or promote policies such as being against nuclear, against GMOs and the like. It is an activist group whose views are seriously compromised. I would really hesitate to trust their reports.

I want to be clear that I would love more electric cars in the market. What I question is at least one source of this information.

[voldemort]

But still, if your existing ICE car is doing adequately well, extracting more years of usage out of it is more environment friendly than buying a new EV car altogether. Buying new things in general, be it a grocery bag or clothes or a laptop or a car has significantly higher carbon impact than extracting as much usage out of already owned options.

[bhami]

You completely ignore the massive pollution caused by junking the (largely non-recyclable) used-up wind turbines and solar modules, most of which last at most ten to fifteen years.

[BlogofTheWst]

There is a fair amount of ad hominem here. “The haters ….”, “… their intentions are …”. Plenty of room for doubt on this issue.

A far more honest video would have been little more than an argument for which way to bet, with plenty of supporting documentation.

[gregveilleux]

Another thing that is often overlooked, is the second life use for the batteries, such as storage in residential solar applications.

[ZarlanTheGreen]

An EV driven with 100% fossil fuel generated electricity, is still cleaner than an internal combustion engine driven car, because it is far more effective. Meaning that a lot less fossil fuels are burned, per kilometre/mile. (not to mention how no energy is wasted at stop lights, and other such details)

[ZarlanTheGreen]

1:47 Ah, what a nice map of the World…
🙄🤦 Damn Americans, thinking that the US is the whole World…

[spacepd]

Good vid, Brian!

Few more points to ponder;

1. Battery recycling is in full swing with companies like Redwood Materials, founded by Tesla co-founder J.B. Straubel. Straubel has told us that enough batteries will be recycled in the future that we'll have a closed loop system, meaning no more NEW raw materials needed. This is tremendous, and will be ultimately sustainable.

2. As you've alluded to, this tech is early days and batteries will improve. Cobalt is already being phased out, yet the FUDsters and the 'haters' keep spreading the worst of anti-EV lies.

3. Haters are a factor, because we see this with the way ICE drivers block EV charging stalls, called 'ICing', or will vandalize Teslas and other EVs, 'roll coal' which is modifying an ICE vehicle to emit thick black smoke to annoy EV drivers and/or nearly everyone, etc. This is a thing, and some of the haters actively spread FUD or are genuinely ignorant about EVs.

4. American Battery Technology Corporation ($ABML) is also working on recycling and as you mentioned, there's lots of money behind this.

5. Tesla owners with solar and Power Walls are already participating in programs to sell energy back to the grid, which is already extremely useful in preventing rolling blackouts during peak usage. Tesla Energy is literally going to put legacy energy out of business at some point.

6. Our Tesla is 100% powered by solar power for daily driving, supplemented by the Tesla Supercharger Network during longer roadtrips. Nothing beats charging at home, and people cannot install their own gas station at home. With solar charging, we benefit from the free thermonuclear radiation raining down on Earth every day from our local star. It's literally free energy. The solar array just harnesses it, and batteries (like a Power Wall) simply store it. Nothing beats charging at home, and you always have 100% charge for a roadtrip vs. a gas car which always starts with less than a full tank.

7. EVs need zero oil changes or gas, meaning no pollutants whilst operating and you can run one in a NICU without incident. Also, no oil means no supertankers of oil to spill their oil, such as the case of the Exxon Valdez, and no BP oil disasters if cars don't use oil. There are other uses for oil (such as tires) but less oil consumption is better.

8. EVs are not beholden to nations of dubious ethical standards for oil.

9. EVs are superior in almost every way, including drivetrain efficiency (way less parasitic power loss compared to ICE). Fewer parts to break or wear out. Tesla was only formed in 2003 but ICE has been around since 1885 so naturally there are more gas stations than places for EV charging. EV charging will at some point reach parity with time required to fill up a car with gas. Gas stations require electricity too, as we know. EVs were used in the Apollo 16 and 17 missions on the moon. They don't need air to combust with gas, so altitude doesn't reduce their power and we know they're SO much quicker than ICE vehicles, inherently. 100% torque from zero.

10. Electricity can be generated from a plurality of sources; solar, wind, hydro, hydrothermal, coal, natural gas, nuclear, etc. Oil is a contested and finite resource from dead dinosaurs, and there are hazards in its transport and recycling. Batteries are eminently recyclable.

11. EVs are inherently safer because there's no hot engine lump to come through the firewall in front of the driver in the event of a collision. No weird or uneven weight distribution. Teslas are the safest cars ever tested by NHTSA, and this includes more than one model. Also, no liquid sloshing around in the car makes for far better driving dynamics. EVs are heavy with centralized mass due to battery mass, but this will improve over time. Tesla already uses batteries as a chassis components, which is ingenious.

ICE is dead. EVs are the new paradigm.

[drichi]

I enjoy the balanced, straightforward explanation without the name calling and other attempts to denigrate folks with a different opinion. Makes me much more likely to see it as something different than the politicized or otherwise biased points of view we see all over the place anymore. Why even your sources have a well-founded reputation for a lack of bias. This will show the haters!

[qwaqwa]

I watch Veritassium, and tho I like him, he not infrequently screws up or says something infuriating. He once tossed off that electric cars are worse than gas, then just continued his vid as if nothing had happened. Nutty.

[WEKSr]

Brian Dunning's choice of words has changed from what once could help an undecided person into one of insulting people still questioning. Example: Starting at 30 seconds he divides his listeners into "Those who accept climate science" and "those who want to frighten you away from buying an EV...". And it gets worse, getting to the point of labeling as "lies" statements which may be incorrect.
Brian's ability to help people looking for better understanding has been lost as he became "just another voice" "claiming to know the truth" and insulting those who are still searching.

[gintaras]

What size of ice car are you compairing to?

[SynthD]

I have both a concern about the sustainability of fossil fuels and the sustainability of manufacturing EVs. I just don’t feel like they are the answer. They seem more like a band-aid than a remedy.

[thAMG]

Also new improvements in battery manufacturing technology available now and in future eliminates the need for Nickle, Cobol and alike. LFP batteries are an example and they are increasing in range capacity.

[brandontomich]

a good point to make as well is efficiency. Gas engines get hot because they are only like 40% efficient

[MikeAnn]

Nicely done, Brian. It's unfortunate that facts don't matter to some people, but they certainly do to the rest of us.

[ivanandreevich]

Actually, it's pretty easy to exceed those averages with efficient driving in a hybrid.

[Opuskrokus]

Haters? So that's the end of discussion.

[LouZerr]

Thanks for that, Brian. I am generally in favour of evs, but not yet ready to switch. Better tech coming before my ice vehicle is done. Is there an approximation of the mileage at which the ev offsets its greater CO2 manufacturing input? It would be nice to know it’s not something like 250, 000 miles.

[paulmkrueger]

Looking at getting one of those new Blazer EVs