Music Degrees are a WASTE of time

I spent the better part of a decade getting music degrees, ultimately only to end up doing something that isn't directly related to what I learned there. So what do and don't they teach you in music school, and would I do it all again?

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[wendelynmusic]

For me, it very much was worth it. aside from it helping me understand how to make music in a much deeper way, even on a downer note, having a BA helped me get better paying jobs. Of course I am not sure the plan b side of a degree is as important as it used to be. I got a degree in electronic music, Audio engineering, and jazz composition. All of these skills in one form or another have been very helpful off and on my entire life. I may not have made a living with music, I have made side hustle money and played music most of my life. It saved me from suicidal depression and gave me life experiences I would never have thought possible. so yeah, it was worth it.

[UnseenMusic]

Thanks for this video, great takeaways. I don't regret getting a music degree, but I think it's because while I was there I understood early on that it was a bubble and the preparation I had to do for the "real world" was ultimately up to me. While I was in music school I was doing jazz performance for drums, but also teaching myself about recording and exploring music that wasn't popular with other students (IDM, experimental, ambient etc...) and engaging with a community online that was into the niche stuff I was into. Although Berklee had its share of snobbery, there was a freeness there that allowed for some different ideas. I had a tough time finding teachers and students who were into a wide variety of things; most had tunnel vision with either rock, classical or jazz, but one day I showed up to a lesson with a new teacher and he had a Stars of the Lid shirt on, and I knew it was a good sign :) He ended up being my most important instructor, he was really demanding and difficult, but very encouraging, we talked about all sorts of music, he wanted to listen to the music I was making outside of school and helped me gain confidence I was on a worthwhile path. We still check in with each other once a year (graduated in '06). Music school for me was about learning how to work with people, what I wanted and what I didn't and getting put into difficult situations and overcoming challenges (performance, workload, social politics). These are tough lessons to learn out in the real world, but academia allowed me to have these experiences in a more controlled way. But yeah, it's a hell of a lot of money.

[thomasgreer]

My Theory/Comp degree was not a waste for me at all. Because of it, I’m not dependent on assisting plugins that figure out the key of songs or chords for me…quantize, auto tune, create drum parts or harmonies for me. I’m not restricted to five chord songs because of it either. It is such a relief to know I can fly with my own wings. Also the personal gratitude I get from knowing I created it all is major.

Of course I do realize that all of those skills can be learned outside a formal environment and I have great respect for those who pushed forward on the path alone, but for me, at least, two years of required ear training would have been difficult to fabricate by myself considering how distracted and undisciplined I can be. I’m not putting down anyone who uses those tools but it’s nice to know that if someone asks me what key their song is in, I can help them.

[joshbottz]

For me, it has been incredibly worth it. The main benefit: A big group of music friends who are focussed on becoming better musicians - we've formed great bands, collaborated to make better music, and had so much fun exploring music, playing gigs, etc. The contacts have been invaluable.

[michaelkonomos]

I am glad you became as good as you are with music, based on your training. Your work really stands apart because of it. I think about Trent Reznor, who spent a lot of years of his youth learning music and it really shows all these years later. There are snobs in both worlds, but I think having one foot in each world like you do, makes your music as powerful as it is.

[Travis_Kemp]

Well Done! so glad i went to school in the 90s. affording school today would be so overwhelming.

[Lachenmann]

I went to NEC in Boston, and worked with geniuses. One of which I formed a piano trio with. I had my first string quartet recorded there. I got a lot out of it: I made sure it paid off.

[garygimmestad]

Great video! My own experience is very similar. I knew in my last year of grad school, where I began in theory and morphed into musicology, that I would not be happy in an academic career. That was most powerfully clarified when I served as a grad student member of a faculty search committee. My undergrad degree was in piano performance. It was all going swimmingly until arthritis burned it all away. I still made a career out of performing, mostly in theater where my reduced level of virtuosity wasn’t an issue. I also did a lot of cocktail piano and big band jazz. Improvisation in all of those venues allowed me to choose what I play - not an option with Beethoven. So I found a meandering career and stayed in music. I absolutely loved grad school and I loved engaging with difficult piano pieces I loved - both technically and spiritually. So, like you, I have no regrets about my academic career. It informs everything I do and think about music. Deep study of counterpoint and music analysis were the shapers of my taste; those studies led me to the qualities in music I most fully appreciate and love. I also got through without debt with scholarships and fellowships. I took away the same life lessons you described. And I would offer similar advice: Unless you’re sure that academia is where you want to live permanently, or that a concert career is truly appealing and viable, don’t go into debt. Thanks again for your thoughtful views!

[camstanley]

I think this video leaves out the fact that having 3 years to solely focus on your passion without working full time, can advance your musical skills 2-3 times as fast as doing a couple hours every day after a 9-5.

Plus going to college/university is a character building experience, I grew up and evolved faster in those 3 years than ever before. Was thrown into experiences that taught me about myself and about how to treat people that I'd of never learned living in my parents house back home.

Although how student debt works here is different, you only pay a small portion of your salary if you earn over £26, 000 per year, if you earn any less you never pay it off (of course the aim is to earn over the threshold). It also gets completely forgiven after 30 years.

[pavedwave]

The main thing that would motivate me to finish a music major I started back in the day is if we moved to Japan, where degrees and credentials are far more valued / expected. It feels like purely a formality at this point, and maybe only for teaching gigs.

[RFmath_]

'Relationships and good work matter more than a degree'. Amen.

[MistyMusicStudio]

I always found it so wild that schools don’t really teach “how make music”. At the end of the day, your ability to create and perform on a single instrument gives you unique strengths though 💪 Incredible that you got through it with no debt!

Fantastic advice, especially for those of us who don’t do as well with traditional education. Finding a private teacher who clicked with me was the difference between me not being interested in learning music at all, and then working to have my entire adult life revolve around it 🎶

[Mat-qz]

Hi Jonathan, in my personal ranking, this is the second 1st place video you put out, after the one where you newinvented the word „forensic“ . Thanks so much for putting this together and putting it out. All the best!

[jessewarren]

Your story mirrors mine exactly. Very cathartic to hear today

[Sosukz]

I'm studying music production but also interested to social media and content creation. I believe someone who study art can work more than just what he studied

[noisemodule]

there's only one thing I love more than the intersection of the academic study of music and the artistic application of advanced music theory on technology: hearing the subject discussed in a mild southern accent. 💜

[fireraid]

The legend speaks again. Stay humble friend.

[bricelory]

The strings coming in around 6:25 - absolutely heart wrenchingly gorgeous!

Also, a really good reflection on education. I have a similar experience with my bachelors in cello - I find myself fascinated in very different musical fields - at least making it - but I learned so many peripheral skills and mysical ideas that contribute to my processes and musical sensibilities far more than I would ever have gotten from anywhere else. Same with how my music is certainly different than others in my fields of interest.

Absolutely great video!

[PanopticMotion]

I compose musique concrète works, but I am also a student of music theory. I love learning about the principles of harmony, melody, and rhythm, and I find that this knowledge helps me to create more interesting and expressive compositions. I also practice scales and chords daily, which helps me to develop my technical skills and to improve my ear for sound/music.

[brianlespoir]

I had to learn everything myself, music theory, at the moment I'm learning to write music on paper. Every time someone tried to teach me, it wouldn't stay with me, I would forget it the same moment and I grew up in an environment of musicians. My father, my sister and family friends. Everything I learned was with a computer, so I can't play anything with my hands, at least not as good as I would like to and that was only possible with the mental support of the environment I grew up in. Music thought me to never give up.