Eric Hyer: Is China the Cause of International (Dis)order?

The rise of China has unsettled the “liberal international order” established by the United States and its European partners at the end of World War II. While China is no longer a “revolutionary” power, many believe that it is a “revisionist” power and has set about changing some of the basic principles and norms of the liberal international order. But how should the United States respond? In this talk, Dr. Hyer will sketch in the rise of China and the impact this has had upon the liberal international order and American primacy, and how the United States has responded.

Eric Hyer received his Ph.D. in political science from Columbia University in 1990 and is presently an associate professor in the Department of Political Science at Brigham Young University as well as the Coordinator for the Asian Studies program. His research focuses on China’s foreign relations. He has authored many articles on China’s arms sales, territorial issues, and US-China relations. His book The Pragmatic Dragon: China’s Grand Strategy and Boundary Settlements was published by University of British Columbia Press in 2015.

[agnesliu]

I was born and raised in HK and witnessed first hand the riots in HK in 2019. What shocked me the most was how western media and politicians could be so biased and inaccurate in their accounts of the terrorist attacks HK was facing back then. They called the HK terrorists heroic democratic fighters, and demonised the HK police who were just doing their duty to keep the place safe. HK police were accused of brutality, but actually no rioters were killed in the incident that lasted several months. The funny thing is, the same thing happened in the Capitol Hill for just one day and some of the protestors were gunned down immediately and some passed away mysteriously later, and they were called rightfully the rioters.
Every country has the right to defend its territory and maintain law and order and keep the place safe for everyone, so does China. And now back to the question whether what happened in HK in 2019 was a terrorist attack, I think no one who has lived through it would call it otherwise. Then this leads us to ask the second question - who masterminded it, who funded it, who pulled the strings behind? The answer is evident.

[lupus]

The US really needs to make clear what the rules are which make up the "Rules Based Order". For example, the US says China should abide by the United Nations Convention on Law of the Sea but the US itself is one of only two countries that are not signatories to the convention. Similarly, the US says that China should abide by the ruling of the World Court directed arbitration with respect to the dispute between China and the Philippines over the SCS. But the US does not recognise the jurisdiction of the World Court. It's clear then that UNCLOS and the World Court aren't part of the "Rules Based Order". So what is ? For example, what rule allowed the US to invade Iraq based on fabricated evidence of WMD, resulting in the deaths of a million people. Or the invasion of Afghanistan resulting in a quarter of a million deaths. Someone help me: what are the rules ! Then there are the many agreements that the US has reneged on such as the nuclear agreement with Iran, the intermediate range missile agreement etc. I guess these weren't part of the "Rules Based Order" so what is ? Finally, there is the International Criminal Court which the US has blocked from investigating US forces war crimes in Afghanistan. The US issued an executive order effectively criminalizing anyone who works at the ICC. Its lawyers, judges, researchers etc could now have their U.S. bank accounts frozen, U.S. visas revoked and travel to the U.S. denied.
Can I summarise what I think the "Rules Based Order" really is: It means that the US does what it likes and the rest of us do what we are told.

[simschiu]

This professor used a definition of Communism I learnt as a child almost 60 year ago. China has changed so much during my life time, how can Americans still understand China with such an old definition of an ideology?? I grew up under the British colony and was taught to dislike communism, but during my life time, I saw how that one party managed to work consistently through faults and trials. It finally brought out the fruit of stability, development and so many miracles within my life time to this 1.4 billions of people. As a Chinese not born in China, I cheer them on and finally understand a country need a government which work consistency with the people's welfare as a goal. If it had been this every 4 years swinging back to the opposite and undo every effort, with all powerful capitalists lobbying for their own benefits like in America, China will be a hell with its 4.5 times of population.

In Hong Kong I saw how western "democracy" and those uncontrolled "freedom" turned my home into hell. I am glad MY country CHINA intervene, that is the job of a responsible government. I don't believe in the spoon-fed ideology of "democracy" any more because after I lived in the US, I see the mockery of this democracy. Whatever you do, it is always the rich and powerful that wins! Most Americans are being turned into slaves of those capitalists without even realizing it, I was shocked people many people had to work 4 to 5 jobs to make ends meet and still have no money in their

Don't be sad for Hong Kong, just leave us alone and don't pour billions of dollar to bribe our young people to subvert our government, keep those money to fix your own infrastructure which are crumbling. If it is so good and it works for you, congratulations. Can America be democratic enough to let another country with another culture choose a path of their own?? Why everyone has to use your system?? Why you always want to become heroes when there was no war, so you have to create war? The acts of bombing and sanctioning are acts of terrorism and dictators, if you don't realize it.

And the professor have no clue how Asians thinks, we are all cultures that yearns for stability, no one will jump up to bomb and send their children to the graves because they "don't like a communist country taking a democratic country". Except a few western trained young people,  they don't care about ideologies to

[voicefrompeople]

Professor Hyer: I agree with you that People outside of China should visit China, learn Chinese language and try to understand China. Especially, including yourself, should visit Xinjiang to see how happy the people's life there. Should visit Hong Kong to see Hong Kong still has better freedom than U.S.A. Main Street News Media really did not tell the truth.

[victoews]

As a Canadian I (we) see China as a builder and USA as a Bomber. Guess who we are cheering for.

[nessenleigh]

I live in China now, and thanks for this wonderful talk. A good question on 51'01" asking the relationship with China, as an American, I've observed that Chinese people really are still very friendly towards American people. There is no big historic hatred between us. The only thing that upsets Chinese is mainly on the demonization of China by the western media and politicians. If you visit China you'll find that the people here are highly satisfied with their living under their government. People appreciate very much for the friendship between us built in the past, and hopefully the relationship can be getting better in the future.

[badderstzi]

The following is what I borrowed from a Malaysian YouTuber’s comment:

I’m from Malaysia. China has traded with Malaysia for 2000 years. In those years, they had been the world’s biggest powers many times. Never once they sent troops to take our land. Admiral Zhenghe came to Malacca five times, in gigantic fleets, and a flagship eight times the size of Christopher Columbus’ flagship, Santa Maria. He could have seized Malacca easily, but he did not. In 1511, the Portuguese came. In 1642, the Dutch came. In the 18th century the British came. We were colonised by each, one after another.

When China wanted spices from India, they traded with the Indians. When they wanted gems, they traded with the Persian. They didn’t take lands. The only time China expanded beyond their current borders was in Yuan Dynasty, when Genghis and his descendants Ogedei Khan, Guyuk Khan & Kublai Khan concurred China, Mid Asia and Eastern Europe. But Yuan Dynasty, although being based in China, was a part of the Mongolian Empire.

Then came the Century of Humiliation. Britain smuggled opium into China to dope the population, a strategy to turn the trade deficit around, after the British could not find enough silver to pay the Qing Dynasty in their tea and porcelain trades. After the opium warehouses were burned down and ports were closed by the Chinese in ordered to curb opium, the British started the Opium War I, which China lost. Hong Kong was forced to be surrendered to the British in a peace talk (Nanjing Treaty). The British owned 90% of the opium market in China, during that time, Queen Victoria was the world’s biggest drug baron. The remaining 10% was owned by American merchants from Boston. Many of Boston’s institutions were built with profit from opium.

After 12 years of Nanjing Treaty, the West started getting really really greedy. The British wanted the Qing government:
1. To open the borders of China to allow goods coming in and out freely, and tax free.
2. Make opium legal in China.
Insane requests, Qing government said no. The British and French (with supports from the US), started Opium War II with China, which again, China lost. The Anglo-French military raided the Summer Palace, and threatened to burn down the Imperial Palace, the Qing government was forced to pay with ports, free business zones, 300, 000 kilograms of silver and Kowloon was taken. Since then, China’s resources flew out freely through these business zones and ports. In the subsequent amendment to the treaties, Chinese people were sold overseas to serve as labor.

In 1900, China suffered attacks by the 8-National Alliance (Empire of Japan, Russian Empire, British Empire (including India), France, USA, Germany, Italy, Austria-Hungary). Innocent Chinese civilians in Peking (Beijing now) were murdered, buildings were destroyed & women were raped. The Imperial Palace was raided, and treasures ended up in museums like the British Museum in London and the Louvre in Paris.

In late 1930s China was occupied by the Japanese in WWII. Millions of Chinese died during the occupancy. 300, 000 Chinese died in Nanjing Massacre alone.

Mao brought China together again from the shambles. There were peace and unity for some time. But Mao’s later reign saw sufferings and deaths from famine and power struggles.

Then came Deng Xiao Ping and his infamous “black-cat and white-cat” story. His preference in pragmatism than ideologies has transformed China. This thinking allowed China to evolve all the time to adapt to the actual needs in the country, instead of rigidly bounded to ideologies. It also signified the death of Communism in actually practice in China. The current Socialism+Meritocracy+Market Economy model fits the Chinese like gloves, and it propels the uprise of China. Singapore has a similar model, and has been arguably more successful than Hong Kong, because Hong Kong being gateway to China, was riding on the economic boom in China, while Singapore had no one to gain from.

In just 30 years, the CPC have moved 800 millions of people out from poverty. The rate of growth is unprecedented in human history. They have built the biggest mobile network, by far the biggest high speed rail network in the world, and they have become a behemoth in infrastructure. They made a fishing village called Shenzhen into the world’s second largest technological centre after the Silicon Valley. They are growing into a technological power house. It has the most elaborate e-commerce and cashless payment system in the world. They have launched exploration to Mars. The Chinese are living a good life and China has become one of the safest countries in the world. The level of patriotism in the country has reached an unprecedented height.

For all of the achievements, the West has nothing good to say about it. China suffers from intense anti-China propagandas from the West. Western Media used the keyword “Communist” to instil fear and hatred towards China.
Everything China does is negatively reported.

They claimed China used slave labor in making iPhones. The truth was, Apple was the most profitable company in the world, it took most of the profit, leave some to Foxconn (a Taiwanese company) and little to the labor.

They claimed China was inhuman with one-child policy. At the same time, they accused China of polluting the earth with its huge population. The fact is the Chinese consume just 30% of energy per capita compared to the US.

They claimed China underwent ethnic cleansing in Xinjiang. The fact is China has a policy which priorities ethnic minorities. For a long time, the ethnic minorities were allowed to have two children and the majority Han only allowed one. The minorities are allowed a lower score for university intakes. There are 39, 000 mosque in China, and 2100 in the US. China has about 3 times more mosque per muslim than the US.
When terrorist attacks happened in Xinjiang, China had two choices:
1. Re-educate the Uighur extremists before they turned terrorists.
2. Let them be, after they launch attacks and killed innocent people, bomb their homes.
China chose 1 to solve problem from the root and not to do killing. How the US solve terrorism? Fire missiles from battleships, drop bombs from the sky.

During the pandemic,
When China took extreme measures to lockdown the people, they were accused of being inhuman.
When China recovered swiftly because of the extreme measures, they were accused of lying about the actual numbers.
When China’s cases became so low that they could provide medical support to other countries, they were accused of politically motivated.
Western Media always have reasons to bash China.

Just like any country, there are irresponsible individuals from China which do bad and dirty things, but the China government overall has done very well. But I hear this comment over and over by people from the West: I like Chinese people, but the CPC is evil. What they really want is the Chinese to change the government, because the current one is too good.

Fortunately China is not a multi-party democratic country, otherwise the opposition party in China will be supported by notorious NGOs (Non-Government Organization) of the USA, like the NED (National Endowment for Democracy), to topple the ruling party. The US and the British couldn’t crack Mainland China, so they work on Hong Kong. Of all the ex-British colonial countries, only the Hong Kongers were offered BNOs by the British. Because the UK would like the Hong Kongers to think they are British citizens, not Chinese. A divide-and-conquer strategy, which they often used in Color Revolutions around the world.

They resort to low dirty tricks like detaining Huawei’s CFO & banning Huawei. They raised a silly trade war which benefits no one. Trade deficit always exist between a developing and a developed country. USA is like a luxury car seller who ask a farmer: why am I always buying your vegetables and you haven’t bought any of my cars?

When the Chinese were making socks for the world 30 years ago, the world let it be. But when Chinese started to make high technology products, like Huawei and DJI, it caused red-alert. Because when Western and Japanese products are equal to Chinese in technologies, they could never match the Chinese in prices. First world countries want China to continue in making socks. Instead of stepping up themselves, they want to pull China down.

The recent movement by the US against China has a very important background. When Libya, Iran, and China decided to ditch the US dollar in oil trades, Gaddafi’s was killed by the US, Iran was being sanctioned by the US, and now it’s China’s turn. The US has been printing money out of nothing. The only reason why the US Dollar is still widely accepted, is because it’s the only currency which oil is allowed to be traded with. The US has an agreement with Saudi that oil must be traded in US dollar ONLY. Without the petrol-dollar status, the US dollars will sink, and America will fall. Therefore anyone trying to disobey this order will be eliminated. China will soon use a gold-backed crypto-currency, the alarms in the White House go off like mad.

China’s achievement has been by hard work. Not by looting the world.

I have deep sympathy for China for all the suffering, but now I feel happy for them. China is not rising, they are going back to where they belong. Good luck China.

[nickip]

A wonderful speech !! Hong Kong isn't a sad case at all. I am a 60 year old man HK born Chinese. We still enjoy a lot more freedom than most of China cities. Due to political chaos in HK back to 2018/2019 I think it was a correct move imposed by Beijing officials.

[lokechanmun]

The US has 800 military bases in 70 countries. US may be a democracy at home. It is an imperial power outside of America.

[weiminooi]

When hong kong protestor storm in parliment, Mdm Nancy: "sight to behold" and it is sad democracy is deteriorating in HK. But yet when people storm capitol hill, it is federal felonies....
Same thing both hk rioters and capitol hill protestor did, but yet 2 different sets of saying. Double standards, don't you think? hypocrites....

[lukelokasf]

The professor said that saddam husein invasion of Kuwait is the same as China’s invasion of Taiwan, he is WRONG.
Kuwait was a sovereign country when it was invaded by Irak, Taiwan is NOT an independent country, it is part of one China principle, the official name of Taiwan is Republic of China (ROC), while mainland China is officially called the People’s republic of China (PRC), both claimed as CHINA.
China is a country recognised by the UN, Taiwan is part of China territory, nothing can change that.

[SyTacLoc]

The way this man explained about the port that China took from Sri Lanka was that China built the port and because Sri Lanka could pay the loan to China so the China took the port. To make it clear, Sri Lanka got a loan from the west and couldn’t pay back. Sri Lanka asked China for help to pay back the loan. I think it’s fair that China uses the port because the debt of Sri Lanka settled with China’s help.

[netterdrachen]

China is not disturbing international order, it is disturbing American order for the world. And I think it is a good thing.

[chee-liekho]

I have to disagree with him on Hong Kong. The British ruled Hong kong for 100 years without democracy but why after handing back China became so enthusiastic? The reason is simple. Britain and US eanted to make Hong kong into another Gibralta. They were subverting and infiltrating HongKong for the past twenty years with "Hong Kongers" who are actually foreign citizens. There are about 300, 000 Canadians and not to mention those holding British and US citizenships. Some are even Vietnamese first generation refugees. China dealt with Hong kong independence movement the same way as British did to the Northern Ireland movement or the Spain did to its Catalan independence movement. It is just double standards.

[saviohudson]

Does anyone know where the HK issue started and what incidents led to it? Well, while I was in Taiwan around 2018, an HK couple came to Taiwan for vacation, and the guy murdered his pregnant girl and dumped her body in the river before fleeing to HK. As per Taiwanese and HK law, they do not have any laws in place that could help Taiwan or HK to prosecute crimes that happen outside their jurisdiction. So Taiwan couldn't extradite the guy, and HK couldn't prosecute him because the crime happened outside their jurisdiction. Because of this, the guy who murdered his GF went scotfree, and this incident prompted mainland China to come up with a law that would permit the law enforcement agencies to extradite convicts to the mainland for trial. This 'controversial' law is what eventually led to the riots.

[VL-inquisitor]

Roughly 1yr after this clip, China made history by brokering a peace deal between 2 arch-rivals - Saudi Arabia and Iran. This is a game-changer as China is becoming a true leader in the international arena setting the international order that promotes peace and developement through multilateral dialogue, mutual respect and diplomatic resolution. So, to answer your question, China is the cause of international order and peace.

[tohkianhoe]

The professor speak professionally. However the last question raised about human rights, HK society is much peaceful now but he does not give a credit to China newly implemented policy. About XinJiang, how USA handle terrorisum, such a big mess in Afghanistan, but professor ignore the real facts that XinJiang muslim enjoy higher quality of iiving in compairsion to other parts of the world.

[frankteh]

Professor Eric Hyer, please enlighten why the United States has war fleets on every ocean, 800 military bases around the world, enough nuclear weapons to wipe out life on earth several times over, has been waging war in the Middle East and North Africa for 30 years and is illegally occupying Iraq and Syria against the wishes of their governments and people. Among the other 2 questions I’ve asked earlier. Thank you.

[MDD]

Prof. Hyer, as an academic, what evidence do you have about human rights situation in Hong Kong, Xinjiang of China? I hope you did not just hear from news media like BBC.

[truthfiction]

Fantastic presentation by the gentleman, but there are many flaws and basic understanding of the situation clearly led naked by the naive and uninformed questions asked by these young Americans.
To start with, it's frightening to see in these young minds the pure American exceptionalism to do whatever they feel like around the world without consequences and not abiding by any international rule (which they were pivotal to).
How can Americans talk about human rights when they take unilateral decisions against international laws and destroy the country, economy, livelihood, and safety of numerous countries all in the name of democracy. The professor talked about China dicating to the people how many children they should have, yet the American president just recently told the American people they could lose their jobs if they don't take the Covid jab; what is the fundamental difference between these two instances? America just pressured the UK into extraditing Julian Assange to face trumped up charges in the US for exposing their war crimes around the world; tell me how the US possesses any moral rights to criticise China, Iran, or Russia on human rights abuse.
On economy, the US and its Western allies have plundered the weaker nations in South America, Africa, and parts of Asia for decades and when any of these countries complained, these western allies trump up charges and overtook such a government (via violent coups) and in some cases simply attacked them like in Iraq and Lybia. The west had its chance to make it right with all these nations but they chose the path of oppression and exploitation, now, the Chinese are presenting an alternative, not perfect by any stretch, but it's nevertheless an alternative with a human face and gives these weaker nation nations a chance to grow on their own terms, and they'd be stupid not to take it.
I predict that the west will be relegated into insignificance in the next 10-20 years going by the programs run by the Chinese, and we all have our leaders to thank for it.
Fact is, the US and its allies twists and changes the rules of the game as long as they maintain world hegemony and dictate the rules of the game; the problem is, how long can the west sustain such a cruel and mean strategy in dealing with other countries?