Why is Arrow Lake So Bad?

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Video Index
00:00 - Welcome to Hardware Unboxed
00:26 - Ad-Spot
01:05 - Windows scheduling Arrow Lakes Issue?
06:49 - Why do you think Intel keeps using E-cores?
16:22 - Where are the Ultra 3 and Ryzen 3 CPUs?
22:00 - Why is Arrow Lake gaming performance so poor?
26:18 - Why did Intel even bother releasing Arrow Lake?
33:36 - What factors indicate that a CPU will be future-proof?
41:53 - Was Arrow Lake or Ryzen 9000 pre launch handled better?
51:39 - Outro

Why is Arrow Lake So Bad? October Q&A [Part 1]

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Outro music by David Vonk/DaJaVo

[TheEVEInspiration]

They switched places...I am so confused now.

[AKKI]

The more you arrow, the more you lake

[warnacokelat]

First attempt at gluing cores together.

[razvandavid]

Intel used to be a warrior, until it took an Arrow to the knee.

[LightsOut]

"I used to milk 14nm++++, but then I lost arrow in the lake"

[thunderarch]

The First generation Ryzen did cost pennies on the dollar, so it didn't matter if they weren't the best.

This arrow lake cost way too much for what they offer, so I wouldn't be willing to pay a premium for something that at best has the same perfomance as otger products (same with Ryzen 9000 btw)

Dumb example, you need a CPU for gaming and productivity between 300-400 bucks, you won't buy a 245k or a 9700x, you'll buy a ryzen 7900, easily, still good gor gaming and crushes the other two chips in productivity

[JohnSmith-swzy]

It is incredible how in-depth testing has become. Back in 1990 when I started getting into PC Hardware there was only the information that a new CPU hit the market and you only looked at how high the MHZ is to determine its speed :D

[MM-vset]

Not much of a lake this time. More like a puddle

[Hi_Im_o]

they focused on efficiency, so performance went out at the beginning, and they failed efficiency too they messed up their one selling point

[RiteshKumar-ulzf]

Do we actually need 16 E cores for low power tasks😅😅

[MXTTFRXGS]

Based on the subtle comments are that laugh, The new 9800X3D is gonna blow the new intels out of the water. I think that's what products they were testing when mentioning it early in the video lol. They can't say much but there's some hints. The new X3D's are gonna be fuckin sick.

[inflex]

Good part of the blame goes to the Windows scheduler. It seems to prefer hopping threads from core to core for whatever reason, invalidating L1/L2 cache and predictor optimizations all the time.
Heterogenous architectures are hit the most, and AMD could tell some stories about it...

[Opkropkop]

Remember the i7 920? Now THAT was a powerfull CPU..

[ChristopherYeeMon]

Disagree about the 1080ti. Moving from high end to mid range to entry level is exactly what I do and what you should do. Amortized over time, your parts will last the longest and you'll save the most money, and you should learn to adapt anyways. I had my 1070 for 7 years before Alan Wake 2 made me move to the 7900 XT. If not for that game I'd still be on it. Its like the difference between leasing your car and paying off your car and running it into the ground. Leasing is a way worse use of your money

[brunogm]

i think a gaming test using only e-cores would be informative. since some twitter threads show 20ns less latency in e cores if p cores are disabled

[danieloberhofer]

Just watch that interview Wendell had recently with that Intel executive (whose name escapes me just now) and you know all you need to know. The level of arrogance is mind blowing! If that's how all of Intel operates, it's no wonder that ARL is such a dud.

[shanemshort]

5:14 because scheduling is way way harder than it used to be, windows has never really had to deal with cores that are so dissimilar in performance (beyond NUMA) and I suspect a lot of these regressions came in when they started having to mess around with it to accomodate Alder Lake

[thDragoon]

The time stamps don’t seem to line up with the actual questions they’re assigned to. The “Where Are The Ryzen/Ultra 3s?” question seems to be the culprit.

[catsspat]

The way AMD did the "gluing" not only helped with yield, but it also allowed AMD to use the same chiplets to build EPYC server CPUs.
The way Intel did the "gluing" doesn't allow for any such benefit.
Every single chip design and manufacturing costs an arm and a leg, so there's no way Intel way can be cheap.

[Shantara]

About the Intel’s reasoning for using economy cores, another important aspect here is that they were absolutely destroyed in the laptop space by Apple in terms of power consumption, thermals and fan noise. And the E-cores were a stopgap solution for this without having to do a more radical redesign of the entire CPU architecture