I'm stopping using Alkaline AA and AAA batteries: LI-ION is here...

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#battery #LIion #review

[MCsCreations]

Awesome review, Lee! 😃
I won a little charger and 4 AAA batteries from that brand from Gal Kremer. They are in the pressure measuring thingy my father uses... They're in use for about 2 or 3 weeks. He removed them yesterday to check and they're still full! 😂
"Normal" AAA batteries never last that long!
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[salipander]

Never had any problem with Eneloop NiMh batteries. They don't self discharge in years, which is a giant advantage.

[helidrones]

I am using those AA sized Li-Ion cells for my wireless microphones and wireless in-ear monitoring. It has been a game changer. No need to mark matching NiMH pairs, no need to fully discharge before recharging, no unreliable delta-peak detection.

[petersplat]

Just the type of info video I like; straight up, and not stories to tell. I'd like to add that I had a lot of problems with alkaline batteries, especially Duracell, leaking out inside my infrequently used test equipment. I grew to hate alkaline batteries. Now I use one time use lithium batteries, and I can sleep knowing I don't have to remove batteries every time I put up my test equipment.

[BrianGUK]

This kind of "cell" is a Li-ion cell and a DC-DC converter together in an AA or AAA size package. One small problem is a small amount of radio interference emitted by the DC-DC converter. This means I can't use them in my portable short wave radios without getting poor reception. Also they often don't hold charge quite as long as one might hope (still better than most Ni-MH or Ni-Cd though).

[connecticutaggie]

Thanks for sharing. These XTAR batteries look to be a game changer. The reason you could not get AA and AAA LI-ION is not because they could not make them small. The issue was the voltage. The chemistry that original AA and AAA were based on creates 1.5V. The problem is that LI-ION chemistry produces about 3.6V - which would blow out your 1.5V based devices. So, what changed? The 1.5V LI-ION batteries have a built-in converter that can drop the voltage. There are several batteries out there that can do that but the challenge is how do you charge them? For most brands, there is a special charging connector but this adds to the cost of the battery. What XTAR has done is make a battery that can be charged using the standard power pins. They do that by charging with a higher voltage (3.5-5V) which the circuit inside the battery detects and shifts is into charging mode. Very clever.

[TheWebstaff]

Lee these have been out for years. Really surprised this is the first time you've seen them.
I hope the quality has improved as they used to have a high failure rate.
Also as you mention you can tell on a normal device when they are going flat as the device battery meter can't see the true cell voltage.
They do make some that drop the voltage as the lithium cells drops btw but they are even more expensive.

[poneill]

That's a pretty clever little thing actually, .... Litium Ion chemistry produces 3.7-4.2v, .. it CANNOT generate 1.5v. Therefore, this litle device MUST have 4v to 1.5v DC conversion circuitry inside it, in addition to all the "battery" stuff, and in addition to various charging, and safety electronics for short circuit and current limiting protection (Li-Ion goes boom!)
Impressive that they can get those mAh capcities in such a small form factor, shared with a bunch of conversion and saftey electronics.(not surprised they're like $5 each!)
Of course, If you're powering a device that uses multiple 1.5v cells, it's probably better to use a custom Li-Ion pack with one single DC-DC conversion rather than one in every 1.5v cell as each conversion has inefficiencies. (e.g 2 x AA => 1Li-Ion + 1 x 4.2v-3v BMS, 4 x AA =>2 x Li-Ion + 1 x 8.4v-6V BMS)

[etmax]

Thanks for a clear and concise review. Obviously these need to have a buck converter built in, which means they have a much higher static discharge than a regular battery. I mostly use AA & AAA cells in multimeter and similar portable instruments as well as remote controls which means that becomes an issue. If it's not too much to ask, could you put a single cell on a long term test and see how long a cell lasts with no load?

[Kirmo]

You hit the key point explaining why NiMH are not the perfect replacement for Alkaline: they have different voltages! Nominal voltage is 1.2V and 1.5V respectively, and sure, that's only the nominal voltage and during the discharge cycle, the alkaline loses voltage faster than the NiMH so the voltage spread between the two diminishes as they discharge. But what if the appliance I'm using requires higher voltage? Then, as you pointed it out, it just won't work.
I just think that the international standard for batteries is a little outdated and something needs to be done to modernize

[EgonSorensen]

I would love to know how they do long-term.
Will they expand like the 'regular' Li-Ion packs, will they leak like Alkaline, how do they do temp wise and - can they catch fire/explode...
Until then, I'll continue using the regular Lithium AA/AAA batteries. Yes, they're not rechargeable, but I need them for their long-time stability in low power devices (I use NiMH which also extremely rarely leaks, a 'deep' cycle once in a while them keeps them 'fresh')

[wtfmimshag]

Interesting, it must have some sort of DC to DC regulator built in to the cell to step down to 1.5v?

[louisvillaescusa]

Where I used to work, they decided that they were spending too much for alkaline AA batteries for the theatrical headset beltpacks. So they started using nickel metal hydride and suddenly I start getting calls that the headset beltpacks aren't working correctly. Each headset takes six AA batteries, so you can see the voltage drop problem.

[UQRXD]

I have had some for a few months. One thing I have found is that standard AA ones last longer in fact many times longer. There are good for the finicky devices that want full voltage. I have a device that runs on 4 AA's will not use NIMH. But I can also take 2 lithium batteries in series and operate it. A bit over voltage but it does not seem to mind. How ever at 25 bucks for 4 of them they are pricy. As always any change of state of power has a loss. The circuit that reduces the voltage has loss. Loss equals less run time. Alkaline batteries still have a place with good shelf life. Also if power is out you can always throw a fresh set in. Energizer batteries are best for not leaking. And they say will replace device if they do leak.

[stinkycheese]

These make sense for devices sensitive to voltage, because they were poorly engineered to use the wrong battery or # of cells such that they can't keep working until the full capacity of the cells is consumed.

Outside of those cases, it is a very expensive way to power things that don't need them, and their voltage droops on high drain devices so you again run into the issue of whether that voltage droop causes the device to cease operating prematurely.

Personally I like to just avoid devices that can't get the full charge out of the batteries they were designed for, and will return products due to this design flaw.

Since I do that, I am fine continuing to use LSD NiMH AA and AAA, but it puzzles me how the video seems to pretend that they take longer to charge because they don't if you simply pick a suitable charger, if your priority is fast charging. However if you have LSD cells, and want to throw money at your problem anyway, then I just have spare sets of cells so I can grab an already charged set to swap into a device and then let the discharged cells charge slower, which promotes longer life as well.

Don't expect these Li-Ion cells to live up to their recharge cycle rating. It is very unlikely that they will if adhering to industry standards of % capacity remaining by the time the cells reach their recharge cycle rating. At the same time this is not necessarily as important to someone as the runtime using a specific device, if they can't or don't want to replace it with something designed to use Li-Ion out of the box.

[raceskier]

How about doing a teardown of these cells? Using the unregulated cell of this size is very intriguing
for other RC applications.

[k.o.]

Since we are all RC enthusiasts, I simply use my hobby grade charger and a 2 or 4 cell blank tray and charge that way. These li-ion batteries have overcharge protection, so instead of using Balance charging I simply set to charge to bypass the balance cable requirement. Works just fine. Been using these type batteries for 3 years now, no issues.

[Niei]

LiIon in those sizes has been around for years. I was already using 14500 batteries 15 years ago. The difference is there's a buck converter inside these that lowers the voltage.

[paulstubbs]

Interesting, I'll have to try and track one down. I'm a bit disappointed with the charger though, as it's only half done, you need an existing USB charger to make it all work as opposed to just plugging it into a power outlet.
Also there is the questing of how many amps the cells can deliver, can they handle high demand use like camera flash guns and toy racing cars that normally drain a cell very quickly. Then there is the other extreme, things like clocks, it'll be interesting to find out.
Now to find out where to get them - not seen at my regular shopping haunts.

[jimhudson]

I also use the XTAR 1.5V cells. I have a couple of battery powered wall clocks which need a higher voltage than NiMH LSD cells (Eneloop, etc) can deliver. So, I've been burning throiugh alkaline cells until now. Very happy. One application where the Xtar cells fails is in my old Sony portable radio. The switching regulator inside each cell makes enough electromagnetic noise to interfere with the radio - particularly on AM bands (LW, MW, SW). I also use the Xtar's in my rear bike lights but I'm conscious that they will fail without warning when they're out of juice. On the whole, I'm very pleased.