Flirting with Totalitarianism | David Zweig | EP 354

Ep. 354

Dr. Jordan B. Peterson and journalist David Zweig discuss his role in breaking the Twitter Files, government censorship in society, the extent to which lockdowns were effective, how they affected children in particular, and how one renegade church would not bow to overzealous regulation.

David Zweig is a writer and journalist, with multiple books published, such as “Invisibles” in 2014 and the upcoming “Abundance of Caution” that centers on the effects of the COVID-19 response on schools and children. He was also one of the journalists who helped break the Twitter Files, focusing on the suppression of information to the satisfaction of the U.S. government and the public health establishment.

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For David Zweig:

Read David’s article that we discussed in the episode:

“When a Renegade Church and a Zealous County Health Department Collide”

- Chapters -

(0:00) Coming up
(1:16) Intro
(1:51) The role of the media
(3:25) How Zweig joined the Twitter Files team
(5:02) Parameters of the investigation
(6:00) Determining relevance
(9:39) Why Zweig chose to tackle lockdowns
(14:13) Having solid stories turned down
(18:44) Bari Weiss, willing to listen
(21:53) What the suppression of voices on Twitter means
(26:23) Public trust in vaccines before the pandemic
(30:45) The biological parallel
(33:00) Overt focus on the pathogen left us blind to the side effects of our response
(35:43) “Stay in your lane”
(30:42) The problem of having too many options
(41:58) Why we have natural, inalienable rights
(47:55) Early data that was completely ignored
(49:52) Weighing risk against value
(53:45) An astonishing lack of curiosity
(54:40) The evidence based hierarchy: where expert opinion ranks
(57:30) The censorship at Twitter exposed
(1:00:25) Some censorship is not unreasonable
(1:01:03) Psychology of troll behavior
(1:03:09) The few can corrupt the whole
(1:05:22)The job of a journalist is NOT to draw the line
(1:07:26) Authoritarian information control
(1:13:43) Confusing a model with actual data
(1:14:52) The error in “techno-solutionism”
(1:18:07) The places that stayed closed and those left outside
(1:22:22) Critical well being dispensed over assumptions
(1:25:10) Asking questions makes YOU the pathogen
(1:27:08) Spying on church members, millions in fines
(1:31:50) Rapidly diminishing returns across time
(1:33:30) The truly affected are those who lost their support systems

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[jennymcgowin]

“Why where the casinos open, why were the churches closed?” Exactly! I love this guy! What a wonderful example of a true journalist!

[trudymiller]

When the government tried to take away my ability to make decisions best for me, it unknowingly gave me what I needed to know .

[MKPB-sydz]

God I was so lucky to find Dr Peterson when I was in college. At least one sane voice in an ocean of indoctrination.

[OkTxSheepLady]

The political world is no longer divided left and right but rather individual freedom and authoritarian.

[jburma]

David Zweig is very obviously one of the honest actors in journalism. I love how energetic he is about every topic. He's brimming with light.

[hismercysavessallysue]

Excellent interview, and I'm super grateful for all those simply speaking the truths, unafraid and with courage. As a single person, I put my entire 30 year career, retirement, etc on the line to stand against the unscientific tyranny. No way was I willing to comply with lies, but I'm a Born Again Christian that walks very closely with God since 2016, so I knew regardless of whatever persecution I had to face to stand on the truths, God would make a way for me....and HE DID :)

[DanielAddo]

My role model...I'm blessed to discover him at this age( 24)

[themoralwombat]

My grandfather had a stroke during the first months of the Covid lockdown. I live in Romania and my country - like many others - imposed ridiculous lockdown rules blindly. As he lay in the hospital for a week, me and my family were not allowed to visit, we were not even allowed to step into the hospital. He was alone, in a room full of strangers, not knowing why we weren't visiting. His mental state was rapidly declining, so I'm sure he didn't quite understand that the reason we weren't there was due to the restrictions. He died a week later. The last time we saw him was the day the ambulance took him. There were restrictions for funerals too, so my grandmother, who had been glued to my grandpa her entire life and was completely lost at this point, could not even give him a regular funeral, with his friends and family. The maximum allowed was 6 people. In the end it was just me, my mother and my grandmother. To this day we do not know if we buried the right body. All this so that a few months later the restrictions were lifted anyway. My grandpa was old, so it wasn't such a big surprise that he passed, but I can't imagine people who lost their parents, spouses or children in the same way and were unable to even see them in their final days. Thank you Dr. Peterson for the great work you are doing, always a pleasure hearing you.

[jpguthrie]

I was in Japan during the pandemic, and it was like an island of sanity in a sea of political madness. An interesting thing about Japan is that it operates under a constitution created by the American occupation forces after WW2. The writers of Japan's constitution focused on limiting the power of the government to prevent its becoming a future threat, and greatly increasing the individual freedom of the Japanese people. What did this mean during the pandemic? It meant NO MANDATES. The only restrictions Japan was able to enact during the pandemic were against non-Japanese entering Japan, and that's it. In Japan there were no mandated lockdowns, no mandated closures, no mask mandates, and no vaccine mandates. All measures enacted by the Japanese government were on a voluntary basis, and there were no official or social consequences for non-compliance.

In April of 2020 Japan enacted a state of emergency lasting 6 weeks. During this period the government "asked" schools and businesses close, and for people to work from home if possible. Many schools refused on principle to close, because public education is a fundamental public service, and the government is not permitted to deny the people access to public services they are taxed to fund. Other than schools, government offices remained open. During this state of emergency, I had to file my taxes, and found that the main tax office was open as usual, and fully staffed.

When the state of emergency ended on June 1st, schools reopened using a hybrid system of online and in-person classes, and businesses tentatively began reopening (though many never closed). In Japan there were no restriction against indoor dining, no restrictions against domestic travel. During further local emergency declarations, the government encouraged businesses to limit hours and not serve alcohol, which many businesses chose to ignore. The government then tried to convince liquor distributors to stop making deliveries to businesses which chose to defy the government's "requests, " to which the distributors told the government to go f*** themselves.

The pandemic was a surreal time in Japan. With no foreign tourism (which was supposed to start booming for the Olympics), the hotels and resorts were quiet. My family and our friends took several ski trips, then a few beach trips, as well as going camping around Japan. Everything was open. In the meantime, other countries were arresting people for breaking quarantine, banning indoor dining, and restricting the freedom to travel around one's own country.

What were the results of Japan's limited approach to COVID? Oddly, fewer people died in 2020 and 2021 than died in 2019. The suicide rate fell, deaths from other causes fell as well, in 2020, there were 22000 fewer deaths than in 2019. Oddly, it wasn't until after the vaccine rollout that Japan began to see an increase in deaths, and since the rollout, Japan has seen some 200, 000 non-COVID excess deaths. Shocking, isn't it?

[LYNNSTER]

The last half of grade 8, all of grades 9 and 10, and now nearing the completion of grade 11, have all basically been write-offs for my 16 year old daughter, in terms of both attendance and academic performance. She held a 94 overall average in the December 2019 reporting period. She is one of many students who struggled severely in adapting to an online mode of delivery of classroom instruction and course materials. This was IN ADDITION TO the social impact of being physically separated from her peers, and the ultimate devastation to her social development over the course of 2020 and 2021. Most of her classmates continue to this day to struggle academically in some way or other…but for my daughter it’s led to educational disaster since the very beginning of the pandemic. She will be 18 in a little over a year, and neither she nor I have promising hopes of her completing grade 12 with marks good enough to enter college or university with (although I’ve kept a tight lid on my fears and outlook on this where she’s concerned).

[ruthevans]

What I found the most disgusting and disturbing during the height of Covid in the UK was people couldn’t go to loved ones funerals to say their goodbyes, people were being reported by neighbours if you got visitors whilst in lockdown…whilst at the same time 1000s of people were on the streets in crowds protesting Black Lives Matter, but that was ok because apparently that protest was more important than a virus…. I was soooo annoyed watching that protest, seeing all those people in such close proximity to each other after being told I can’t visit my elderly parents. after seeing that I didn’t listen to any of the advise the government gave. How can a funeral be banned but a mass protest be allowed….. funny how it never caused a mass Covid break out either, they must have been immune whilst protesting 🤯🤯🤯

[josefinarodriguez]

I have a coworker that was sober for over 5 years b4 the so called pandemic . Because of the lockdowns he went back to alcohol now he is worse off from where he was. So sad he has been hospitalized now so many times

[kronack]

Thank you for allowing David to speak. He appears to have a lot to say and didn't feel like he could until now.

Interesting conversation. Much appreciated.

[ericgoldstein]

I can’t thank you enough for airing this interview! It is so refreshing to see a professional journalist embody the true nature of that profession: that is, examining significant issues from a neutral viewpoint and coming to a conclusion based on the facts they uncover. There is nothing more critical to our individual empowerment than Freedom of Speech and I have great respect for the two of you for examining these topics forthrightly! Eric

[susangoodman]

😂 Jordan Peterson is always level minded and huge memory for what he says and deep insight so humble and a genuine decent person. Thank you for being so understanding and sharing your knowledge. I enjoy following such a very interesting intelligent conversationalist, and teacher.

[nancyg]

Always hated dystopian movies and now we are living one! I want it to end already with some heroes swooping in to save us! Thank you, Jordan, David, Elon for valuing free speech, Russell Brand, Mike Taibi, Bari Weiss, Dr. Aseem Malhotra, Jimmy Dore, JP Sears, Tucker Carlson, Bret & Heather Weinstein, Dr John Campbell, Naomi Wolf, Luke Rudkowski and many more, thank goodness. Still quite a struggle against the machine that we face… Hope Tucker is right…”Where can you still find Americans saying true things?” he said. “There aren’t many places left but there are some and that’s enough. As long as you can hear the words, there is hope. See you soon.”

[cindybrady]

I appreciate Dr Jordan Peterson. All his discussions are a learning experience for me. Thank you!!!!

[colleendavis]

Thank you Dr Peterson for always facing the difficult things that most people are afraid or don't have the power to do; searching and finding the truth!

[vanveen]

my wife worked in a long term care facility for the aged and I observed that it was probably the worst time in history to face the end we all will, if life were fair all those who did this to our society would face the same end

[jacquelinealthoff]

Words out of my head..I could never articulate to this level. I wish I could share this with so much of my family that fell into this trap...that now they act to like they forget. But they'd never donate this much head space to information. Just listening. I think many have allowed themselves to become mentally limited to the sensationalized partisan television news format....bright, loud, word salad, pandering, digital running strip s of Wallstreet numbers and headlines from other news stories and professional sport stats....the overloaded stupifying casino like tactics of the modern mainstream media.