Could this be the BEST fight scene ever? TROY, Achilles vs Hector, Fight Scene Autopsy

Fight Scene Autopsy is back! This time we take a deep dive analysis of Achilles vs hector from the film TROY.
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#medievalmisconceptions

[rhysgarland]

The difficulty with all of Achilles' mistakes in this fight is that it's almost entirely meant to be an insult to Hector, he's deliberately leaving himself open to show that he doesn't need to properly defend himself to beat Hector.

[TheDeinonychus]

Right from the IMDB page. Brad Pitt (Achilles) and Eric Bana (Hector) did not use stunt doubles for their epic duel. They made a gentlemen's agreement to pay for every accidental hit; $50 for each light blow and $100 for each hard blow. Pitt ended up paying Bana $750, and Bana didn't owe Pitt anything.

Also, Pitt tore his left Achilles tendon while filming. Poetic.

[Bhoddisatva]

I like this scene for its pseudo fantasy element showcasing Hector's expert but mundane skill against Achille's nearly supernatural finesse. It sells this very well even if its more theatrical than real.

[henriquemorales]

My personal explanation for Achilles's strange moves (like putting the shield behind his head) is that this isn't just a fight, he wants to really humiliate Hector for what he's done to Patroclus. He even says so before the fight, and for most of it we see that it really is like he is just toying with his food: even though Hector does have the technical "advantage", Achilles has no problem dealing with it, and the moment Hector gets a blow in and scratches his armour, Achilles gets serious and almost kills Hector twice in a row. He throws away his shield not because of honor, but because Hector really isn't a threat to him, and he won't let people say Hector was bested because Achilles had the upper hand with a shield or proper footing: he wants everyone to know that Hector never stood a chance, regardless of equipment. He kills Hector with Hector's own spear, which he himself decided to bring back into the fight

[adamstevens]

Achilles could have thought he had more of an advantage without a helmet than Hector, so that’s part of why he does it, then Hector wouldn’t want to look “weak” or wouldn’t want to be viewed as having an unfair advantage (these feelings overriding his good sense and logic) so that is why he does it.

[fidelcashflow]

Yeah big thing to consider is Achilles is not only invincible (outside of his heel) but totally unhinged in this fight, his cousin has been recently killed by Hector and he is taunting him regularly throughout the fight. He wants to embarass Hector in front of his family, not simply go for a quick kill. Which I think narratively is a good way to explain why he's using such unconventional tactics.

[Tesla]

i think alot of the achilles not using his shield is supposed to be him trying to flex on hector and sort of taunt him, and alot of hector's failure to capitalize on openings was his fear of achilles

[ranndomundead]

For this fight i always just assumed they went with the narrative that Achilles was just toying with Hector

[nemak]

The helmet thing was also arogance vs honor (it was not just about "you can see my face so you know who I am") - Achilles wanted to show he does not need it in 1v1 fight with the best of enemy army, Hector put it away so he did not have "unfair" advantage. I really liked it because the whole thing really showed that Hector was a better man than Achilles, but not a better fighter.

[KTChamberlain]

Shad: "So far, Hector's made less mistakes than Achilles here."
That's an understatement in the movie since Hector's often the smarter fighter, who sadly gets overridden a lot. He knew bringing Helen to Troy was a bad idea, he was smart enough not to base strategies on "bird signs", he was smart enough not to get butthurt over petty matters and let his people suffer for that, he was smart enough to know that attacking the Greeks with their backs to the sea would unify them, but Priam overruled him, and he was smart know that his death would hasten Troy's demise because his father's crappy judgment would doom Troy, though thankfully Hector's wife heeded his words and made it out with their son and some survivors.

[daniell]

The complaint about the helmet is weird. Hector killed Achilles' friend who was fighting and pretending to be Achilles to give a morale boost to the Greeks. The unmasking was specifically a dig at Hector thinking he fought and killed Achilles. As for the fight itself, Achilles knows of his divine blessing and is mostly screwing around with Hector as a means of dishonoring Hector. Remember, this isn't a fight for honor, this is Achilles' revenge and he has no intention of letting Hector keep his dignity.

[BWeManX]

Fun fact: In the opening fight scene, Brad Pitt actually injured his ankle doing the signature jump attack (at full sprint) and delayed filming for months while he recovered. Cinematically pleasing for sure...but if you twist/break your ankle in melee combat it doesn't bode well for your chances.

[ZivelaGeneracija]

About the helmet thing. It's actually really good because it helps tell the story. Achilles is extremely arrogant and he thinks he doesn't need the helmet so he is comfortable with taking it off. You can tell during the rest of the fight how Achilles is doing all these flashy moves because he is just that much better than everyone else. In his mind he's already won, so he just has to make sure to win with style. On the other hand, Hector is very straight forward and honorable, so he also takes off the helmet to be even with Achilles. That short exchange is a great character moment for both of them

[krayne]

In my opinion, a possible reason for the tendendy to "exchange momentum" and pull back the non-offending arm could be if the choreographer was a barehanded fighter mainly. When I learned Karate, a lot of force for a punch comes from the twisting of the hips kind of like the spinning drum toy.
So this kind of feels like a barehanded fighter that picked up weapons.

[XodusFTW]

I always considered the flamboyance and large openings displayed from Achilles was him proving that he was the superior warrior and in charge of the fight from beginning to end, "I'm so good even with all these openings I'm still going to dominate".
If Hector had truly gone for an opening Achilles would still shut it down and rapidly counter attack.
He's not even sweating at the end whilst you can see the sweat clearly all over Hectors face.

[TheYannir]

For the Bronze Age, bronze weapons would be typical but it is a bit incorrect to assume that the 2 most prominent, wealthy warriors of the age wouldn't have access to iron weapons. The Assyrians and Hittites were using iron weapons a few hundred years earlier around 1300 BC. A speartip doesn't use a lot of iron so it's feasible that they could be using iron-tipped spears.

[wubbalubadubdub]

Also remember, in context of the story, Achilles is attempting to embarrass and humiliate Hector, as well as punish him for the death of his cousin.

[keithgarner]

The Hector gag at the beginning is great

[vincentwood]

I think the idea they were going for was that Achilles was like Ali, taunting his opponent with little defense and lots of mobility. I think this would have been sold more if they let Hector use his shield more effectively in order to show the contrast.

[ohhello]

12:16 Achilles has always reminded me of a shark in this scene and the way you described it fits perfectly. It was just a test nibble to see if Hector was gonna be easier prey than he initially thought.