Should God Hold Human Beings Accountable for Evil in History?

Lord's Day 4

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[desolasolalexluna]

Profound ideas, thank you Paul for talking about this difficult topic

[anselman]

It is safe on you tube to take the examples of evil political leaders and their crimes against humanity from decades ago. But they should make us think about our readiness to be complicit in, or approving of, those in our present day, whom we may not name here.

[SofaWrld]

Thank you for your talk :) Kind of like the serenity prayer, I try to live in a way to experience a peaceful disposition, rather than a sunny or cloudy one..

Again drawing from the serenity prayer, I think we are accountable to the extent that we can change :/? Which is quite a lot given compound effect..

[williambranch]

No, not responsible as a tribe or species. We are held responsible as individuals, day by day. My younger self isn't even responsible for the errors my older self makes. This is why justice is left to G-d.

[tgrogan]

1. All morally-obligated agents who willfully refuse to intervene (to stop a child from being tortured to death) are moral monsters.
2. God is a morally-obligated agent who willfully refused to intervene.
3. Therefore, god is a moral monster.

Loftus, John W.; Slade, Darren M.; Johnson, David Kyle; Price, Robert M.; Eller, Jack David; Madison, David. God and Horrendous Suffering (p. 162). GCRR Press. Kindle Edition.

[jonnyw]

God could have made us less prone to evil. We didn’t choose to be made this way. We didn’t choose our biological desires that are often self seeking. We didn’t even choose to be here.

[rooderoo]

Just read Slaughterhouse Five, and got so frustrated. In many ways, satire side, Vonnegut's answer to cosmic justice is repeatedly "So it goes...".

[uilspieel]

13:47 'I would imagine that a hundred or two hundred years from now, if the Lord tarries, people will look back at our age and they will say: "I can not believe the unenlightened moral values that California, in the 2020s, lived under"' - I assure you, plenty of people in AD 2024 are grieved by the moral bankruptcy that abounds in California right now.

[xlmncopq]

yes we are and thats why we are forced to live with awful people inside our communities

[tgrogan]

Of course, he forgot to talk about "Original Sin". In the mythical "Garden" a mythical man "Adam" ate a mythical fruit from a "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" and what happened then?
"We know what followed. The good God, whose foresight, which is one of the divine faculties, should have warned him of what would happen, flew into a terrible and ridiculous rage; he cursed Satan, man, and the world created by himself, striking himself so to speak in his own creation, as children do when they get angry; and, not content with smiting our ancestors themselves, he cursed them in all the generations to come, innocent of the crime committed by their forefathers. Our Catholic and Protestant theologians look upon that as very profound and very just, precisely because it is monstrously iniquitous and absurd. Then, remembering that he was not only a God of vengeance and wrath, but also a God of love, after having tormented the existence of a few milliards of poor human beings and condemned them to an eternal hell, he took pity on the rest, and, to save them and reconcile his eternal and divine love with his eternal and divine anger, always greedy for victims and blood, he sent into the world, as an expiatory victim, his only son, that he might be killed by men."

Bakunin, Mikhail Aleksandrovich. God and the State (p. 2). Kindle Edition.

[WhiteStoneName]

Am I included in the “people” of the future?

No.

Jk. Yes. I want absolute justice (mercy).

[alohm]

I would say not. If you think about those not knowing their transgressions(unconsciously) are pardoned, and even those that trespass against us are given ample time to repent. I would say that evil is an internal force designed to encourage our hand and see our tendency to anger(our favourite emotion to be stoked within the brain by science) and negativity(it is an designed for safety: The snake or the stick on the road). Can we see the evil we do, and others do, as way to wake us up to our true purpose: to overcome our hate and pettiness. To love, not in spite of our nature but because of it?

10:30 Like the Duality of Franz Haber- At once the creator of a life giving tech, but also responsible for great horrors. The vicissitudes of human experience.

25:45 - that indeed is Karma. Cause and effect. To be cursed, or be act unjustly to others or yourself. To love God With all your body mind and strength, to love thy neighbour as thyself. The cHesed of God, we are meant to try to embody that form of forgiveness and love no matter the transgression.

[johnrockwell]

Why do you think God said "Your people who you led out of Egypt". When that isn't True?

[tgrogan]

All Hitler had to do is repent and turn to Jesus and he would have been totally forgiven ditto Stalin ditto Mao. Hitler was never excommunicated by the Catholic Church. BTW Yahweh did zero to stop these atrocities. In Calvinism Yahweh "predestines whatsoever comes to pass". Who created Hitler? Who created Stalin? Who created Mao? Yahweh knew what they would do before Yahweh created them!!!! PVK cannot answer these questions neither can any other Theist.

[williambranch]

Struggle and suffering are normal. Humans constantly try to escape normality. See Woke ;-(