Busting Tank Myths: Tiger

Developed to meet the requirement for a heavy breakthrough vehicle, the German Tiger heavy tank is probably one of the most mythologized tanks in existence. If you just say "Tiger tank", it's guaranteed that most people will know what you are talking about. The Tiger is made out to be the impossibly strong beast that annihilated Allied tanks such as the M4 Sherman and T-34, but was it really that difficult to destroy? We'll be taking a look at that question and a few other myths. Not all of them are negative, I promise.

Check the channel "About" section for the link to the creator of my profile picture.

Sources:
Faint Praise: American Tanks and Tank Destroyers During World War II by Charles M. Baily
Sherman: A History of the American Medium Tank by R.P. Hunnicutt
Tiger - Thomas Anderson
Tiger 1 Heavy Tank 1942-45 - Tom Jentz, Peter Sarson
Tiger Tanks at War - Michael Green, James D. Brown
Panther, Germany’s quest for combat dominance - Michael Green, Gladys Green
Tiger Tank Commanders - Patrick Agte
Germany's Tiger Tanks D.W. to Tiger I - Thomas L. Jentz, Hilary L. Doyle
German Tank Maintenance in World War II - Department of the Army (1954)
T-34-85 Medium Tank 1944-94 by Steven J. Zaloga
M4 (76mm) Sherman Medium Tank 1943-65 by Steven J. Zaloga

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Subnautica - Into the Unknown
Halo 3: ODST - Rain (Deference for Darkness)

Sound mods:
Epic Thunder (Pre-release)

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#warthunder​​​​​​​​​​​​ #tanks​​​​​​​​​​​​ #tankhistory

[rolandhunter]

Armor angling was mentioned as RECOMMENDED in the Tiger training book for the crew.
Military History Visualised/Not Visualize made a video about it.

And I know, everybody can find it on the wikipedia, who searched for it, but I let this infos here for fun facts.

"The first production series Tiger Fgst Nr 250001 with Motor Nr 46052 was only run-in for 25 km by Henschel before being sent to Kummersdorf for testing. During a test drive on 28 May 1942, with only 52 km on the odometer, a blockage occurred in the steering gear. This Tiger quickly went through the original and two replacement engines (Motor Nr 46051 from July lst to 3rd, Motor Nr 46065 from July 6 to 8) and was fitted with a fourth motor, Nr 46066, after July 13. By 3 August 1942, this Tiger had covered a total of 1046 km; by 31 March 1943 a total of 5623 km; and by 31 July 1943 a total of 7736 km.These figures clearly demonstrate that once the Tiger had overcome its teething troubles, it could withstand a lot of purposefully administered abuse during test programmes"

The Tiger had planetary final drives, what is fantastic (Nowadays all MBT are using it).
The germans knew it, but they knew:
Planetary final drive is complex, expensive.
This is why they not choosed this version of final drive for the panther.
Panther was aimed to produce in high numbers.

[thelieutenant]

It was always weird to me that while being a more cost effective vehicle and more prolific, the Panther was kinda ignored in a lot of WWII documentaries I watched as a kid.

[sortius_]

To my understanding, a lot of the tank crews actually preferred the 75mm in the Sherman, not because it was better for tanks, but because it was better for infantry (the HE shell had much better dispersion). This highlights a factor that many tank afficionados ignore: tanks were more often than not used for tank on infantry combat.

[kasualmechanic]

So for the supposed "Tigers would often run out of ammunition during combat" is not entirely false. There where instances on the Eastern Front where Tiger crews often ran out of ammunition and had to retreat to restock. The myth is that the shells always hit which is far from true. This was escalating by the fact that soviet T34s often just employed the "Just charge at the Tiger/Tigers and hopefully we can get close enough to kill the tiger" and this strategy as insane as it sounds worked half the time. While german sights did help with determining range (I know it was possible, I just have no idea how to explain it), gunners had to constantly adjust the range every time, because between the time in which they fired and when the gun was loaded again, the T34 could have easily moved 50/100 meters.

[SuwinTzi]

I remember hearing that the Tiger when originally designed was meant to be pulled back for repairs and overhauls after major offensives, but due to the nature of the Eastern Front, became a fireman, rapid response, and wasn't able to get the maintenance it needed.

[TehX]

According to history channel, almost every WWII tank and plane is one or both side in this: "When A nation fielded the X-vehicle, the B nation was shocked as their current vehicle was absolutely useless and to counter this new threat, they developed the Z-vehicle." In reality Z had often been in development way before X was fielded.

[bigblue]

The Churchill tank had thicker frontal armour than the Tiger. In fact it was a Churchill tank which which knocked out the famous Tiger 131 which is now in the Tank Museum at Bovington. And that was from a 6-pounder gun. One Tiger plus two Panthers were all destroyed by the standard 75 MM guns on the British Cromwell tank. So it was not impervious to the US or British guns.

[Jenkouille]

I'm not convinced by the observation done at 1:30 about angling, indeed it seems to have been something really documented at the time, and included into the basic formation for Tiger crews. I have a copy of an official french 1945 handbook, directly traduced from a 1943 german 'TigerFibel'.

An entire section is dedicated to explain the principle, with memorizing tips for the crew to be able to consider it under pressure. By exemple, it's explained that the Tiger have 4 meal time (breakfast at 10:30, lunch at 1:30, snack at 4:30, supper 7:10), corresponding to the positioning of the target relatively to the driver's clock. Later, a clover-leaf schematic is superpozed to the clock to summarize the principle of angled armor and immune zone, with perforation data and secure distances relative to a set of opposite tanks (T-34-76, KV-1, Lee, Sherman, ...).

[Existentialcrisis_]

Something to note based on the Tiger Is actual doctrine and purpose. It was fielded and designed with the intent to be used as a breakthrough vehicle, create a gap/hole in enemy lines to allow infantry and other light and medium vehicles to exploit. The Tigers more intensive and difficult logistical requirements was essentially worth the pay off for them. Due to once it had completed it's objective, engineer and maintenance company's would have time to reach the secondary line to provide the needed recovery and maintenance required on the vehicles. All the while the rest of the breakthrough was being exploited by every other usual asset that would be fielded. Serious problems never arose (to a general degree) until it was used out side of its intended role or "leaned" on with the belief it could simply make up for the lack of infantry or mass reserves needed for example. In all it full filled its role as required honestly, and like every armored vehicle also had its issues and drawbacks.

[cedricl.marquard]

I feel like what let down a lot of later german tanks was, that they were too heavy, thus were often a bit underpowered and stressed their transmissions, were often difficult to repair and some didn't use angled armour effectively

[WildBillCox]

Weapons systems are designed with specific missions in mind. Tiger was close to ideal in this wise.
Similarly, use a weapons system outside of its intended roles and missions and anything might happen.

[theobserver]

1:57 - very nice image. Highlights how the panther was much more vulneable to flanking fire at higher distances than the Tiger

[Hogeheg]

I don't think you mentioned the commonwealth once whitch is impressive but the 6pr could supposedly penatrate the tiger at 450feet head on tanks like the crusader 3 had been around for a while and is part of the reason the 6pr was put on tanks till late into the war

[Losingsince]

In reality, the flat front armor of the Tiger was far from invincible. It could be easily penetrated by 76mm, 17-pounder and 85mm guns that were mounted on Allied and Soviet tanks from 1944 onwards. A much more difficult target to deal with from the front was the Panther, which despite being thinner was much more effective due to the steep slope angle.

[abbynormabrain]

The idea of angling your tank is actually discussed in “Tigerfibel” it was meant to be done.

[codymoon]

Tiger, exist
M4 shermans in the bush 100 merers out, "yeah boy"

[Gary_The_Metro]

Whenever I kill 5 tigers in a row in WT in my easy eight I like to type in chat "5 tigers for every sherman" they get so mad lol

[Fluffypancakes-oq]

That one m10 after getting encircled by 4 tigers : *inserts doom music*

The tiger crew's: hans, why do l hear boss music

[Warmaker]

I like this at 3:55 Tracers work both ways.

I don't play this game but I do like your does of history. Thanks.

Also as far as crew and command quality, a great example of this is the Battle of Arracourt in 1944 where some American TDs and a bunch of 75mm Shermans annihilated a whole lot of Panthers. It's late 1944 and the quality of the Panzerwaffe has been going downhill due to all the attrition and years of war, while their opponents have gotten better. The Germans had the higher quality of machines at Arracourt, as well as pretty even numerical parity, but they were still beaten.
*Badly.*

[goofygoober]

Spookston can you talk about war thunders maps? I feel it should be covered