An Unexpected Discussion on the Virgin Birth | Dr. Richard Dawkins

This is a clip from yesterday's podcast with Dr. Richard Dawkins and Alex O'Connor. Led by Dr. Jordan B. Peterson, they discuss the importance of holding the image of "mother and infant" sacred for a society to flourish, and whether the events as depicted in the bible are physical truth claims or a story with evolved depth.

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[Razear]

Alex deserves a lot of credit for facilitating this exchange in a fair manner. He does a really good job of steelmanning both Jordan and Dawkins' respective positions, and grants each of them an equal opportunity to elaborate.

[mattmertens]

which ever side you support is nice but what is really great here is seeing two individuals debating like gentlemen in this day and age.

[Yezzenxtial_]

"People don’t want to hear the truth because they don’t want their illusions destroyed."

— Friedrich Nietzsche

[truemagneticnorth]

As Richard Rohr says, “Myths are always true, and sometimes they really happened”…

[lynchthefish]

My father is a rare person who is very old and orthodox hsidim setmir, he speaks MANY languages very well, including older versions of hebrew arabic has studied talmud extensively.When I was 14 or 15 ( I'm nearly 40 now) he was asked to take a look at the dead sea scrolls. I thought it was a huge honor and when he got back from his trip and I asked him about it he said "It's just a bunch of old men arguing about weather or not those symbols mean : virgin, young woman, desirable woman, unmarried woman, fertile woman etc etc." And it seems they're STILL arguing about it.

[paulx]

Lots of respect for all 3 men.

Beautiful respectful discussion.

Seems so rare now on the internet.

[Anonymous-wdyg]

@8:42 “Jordan prioritizes myth and I prioritize fact”.

This statement is a false dichotomy. Jordan also prioritizes fact, but he is willing to acknowledge the possibility of biblical accounts of events being true beyond what can be currently explained through known facts.

[MikesCarInfo]

Dawkins was like: Was there really a 'boy who cried wolf'? Prove to me he existed!
He can't see the donut because he is too focused on the hole.

[herrrmike]

The question of the virgin birth is an excellent place to launch a debate about religion because it really cuts to the heart of the atheist position.

Atheists want to say that — obviously — a virgin birth is unscientific, just as they want to say that — obviously — the story of Noah’s ark is unscientific.

And while there may be any number of unscientific Christians who believe in such stories uncritically, the question for JP is not whether they are true in a sense that science can address.

For Dawkins, this is tantamount to admitting that they are not true in any meaningful sense at all. And many will want to stop listening at that point, but this is where the real debate begins.

JP is not a Flat-Earther. He acknowledges and respects the contributions of science. He certainly understands the basic science of human reproduction perfectly well.

He only seems to be dodging the question of the virgin birth because he suspects — with good reason — that it is not well formed, and he doesn’t want to answer in a way that would trivialize his position.

And what is his position? It’s that there is a sense — which is more important than the banal scientific one — that Christ was born of a virgin.

How can this be explained? Well, obviously not in a way that would satisfy those who demand a scientific account.

But JP is concerned with the function of myth. He believes that myth provides an account of reality that science is not equipped to address. Indeed, he believes that the myths underlying Christianity provide the essential grounds for science.

It is a subtle and complex notion that takes a lot of effort to unpack.

[chantoreyes]

This was the best part of the discussion in my opinion. I tend to be with Jordan in his view and ive learned a lot from him, but his inability to answer simply when asked about whether he believes the things in the bible literally happened has always bugged me. I understand why it misses the point with him, but that's not the question he's being asked. Alex did masterfully breaking it down enough for Jordan to let his guard down and just answer already. It was an absolute pleasure and honor to see these minds get together to talk. One more off the bucket list.

[Jonathan-upwm]

Professor Dawkins' gift of intelligence is the very same thing that prevents his ability to see his blind spots

[todayisthedayofsalvation]

Faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen.

[justinc]

Truly a captivating discussion. I have tremendous respect for Alex O’Connor for how genuinely he seems to search for the truth, I appreciated how he held Jordan’s feet to the fire and got a straight answer out of him. I also appreciate how Jordan pointed out to Prof. Dawkins the assumption being made in all scientific endeavors, that there is a logical and discernible pattern to the properties of the universe, and as Prof Peterson points out, this is uniquely a Judeo-Christian phenomenon. Can’t wait to watch the whole sit-down.

[davidhyland]

I think the reason why Jordan Peterson has issue coming right out and saying whether or not he believes Christ was born from a virgin is because he knows darn well if he takes a definitive stance on the point than he’ll lose an audience from the people he’s trying to help. As a Christian, I respect Jordan Peterson tremendously. He communicates the Bible, Jesus, and the Gospel with a lot more integral, deep, fundamental, transcendent meaning, passion, and comprehension than most Christians. And understands the depth and significance of the practical application of those axioms more than most Christians. I wish more Christians were like him, to be quite frank.

[peterfetzer]

This mediator is doing an amazing job. Wow!

[dawall]

8:42 Jordan Peterson is a psychologist and a therapist by profession and does not prioritize myth. He prioritizes consciousness and psychology and usually looks at all things as to how they relate or contain to that. He prioritizes consciousness and psychology and usually looks at all things at how they relate or pertain to that.

[benjaminwoodham]

Jordan gives a great answer near the end of the video. I'm so happy he is around to say things like that to intellectuals.

[preykali]

Alex is a truly incredible mediator. Though I know his views of if I watched him mediate I couldn’t tell you his perspective. That’s impressive

[schalkvandermerwe]

For an atheist, the question about the validity of the virgin birth couldn't possibly be answered without themselves allowing God to exist temporarily for the purpose of potentially having the question answered.

[bikunbikun]

This is a high level conversation!! A privilege to see these two brilliant minds.