Sodium Ion vs Lithium Ion Batteries | Tesla Model 3 LFP Replacement?

Lithium-ion batteries power everything from our phones to electric vehicles, but a potential challenger awaits: the sodium-ion battery. But, do these new batteries have what it takes to replace Lithium-Ion batteries as the dominant battery technology? What are the benefits and downsides of Sodium-Ion batteries versus Lithium-Ion batteries?

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[ih]

Would take a sodium ion battery. If using car for mainly city driving, 200 miles is not a bad daily range. Charges in 15 minutes, faster than LFP. For us Canadians, not loosing range in the winter, is priceless.would give up the frunk space for a bigger battery to get same range as RWD M3 now. And, it will be a cheaper car.

[brucec]

Sodium Ion makes the most sense for Stationary storage where weight and volume at not as important which will free up Lithium for vehicles.

[jurajvariny]

Yes sodium ion seems to be considerably safer, there are youtubers already puncturing these cells without catching fire. Sodium alone is actually more reactive than lithium but here it seems more effectively absorbed in electrodes and thus prevented from reacting explosively with air when the cell is damaged. It has better low temperature performance, it can be charged cold. It is not damaged by complete discharge. All these practical advantages over lithium could easily outweigh lower energy density, it's even possible lithium will only stay in premium segment.

[Teslawalter]

Cold weather performance is impressive. This is one of the main complaints from Canadian consumers.

[Groaznic]

It's a huge win also for vehicles if stationary storage goes sodium, then the pressure eases on the lithium production chain which should enable lithium batteries to further drop in price. And home battery storage (Powerwall) price can further drop as well via sodium.

[kylerobinson]

Low temperature performance and material availability are my favorite two characteristics of a Sodium Ion battery :-)

[donblythe]

Thank you for keeping us informed about the battery technology changes

[mattzun]

A cheaper battery is certainly interesting for a compact vehicle used for short commutes, particularly if there is a way of significantly reducing the cost of battery replacement.
Cheaper batteries would also be interesting for PHEVs since you don't need 200+ mile battery range..

I'd really love to see a comparison of the different technologies under summer and winter driving conditions.
If sodium ion batteries do significantly better in winter, the energy density difference may not matter for a lot of people.
A reasonable person sizes batteries for expected worst case, not for ideal conditions.

[rudyroedling]

We are living in amazing technological times!

[Urgelt]

Reminder - 800 volts vs 400 volts has no bearing on charging speed. The BMS throttles charging speed based on the manufacturer's trade-off decision, charging speed vs battery cycle life. 800 volt architectures have advantages - a bit more energy efficient (less heat generation when handling current), less mass in cables.

If a manufacturer claims faster charging, it's a product of that trade-off. Not voltage.

Another point: there is no shortage of exploitable lithium deposits. There *is* a shortage of refinery capacity. There is a build-out of refineries underway. Tesla itself is building a lithium refinery in Texas. They are not alone.

Lithium mining is also ramping, and new refining methods are in development. But keep in mind, lithium deposits are not scarce.

Sodium batteries are not just limited in capacity per gravimetric unit. They are also able to produce less voltage. Not really ideal for transportation. But mass and voltage are less critical for fixed installations, where cost is more important. BYD is exploring transportation uses, but it's a safe bet sodium batteries will see more commercial use in grid storage, where BYD also competes.

I think it is unlikely that Tesla will put sodium batteries in cars. Of course I might be wrong! Megapacks, however, might be a product line where we might see sodium batteries if the tech can be matured for it.

[rogerstarkey]

Jon.
Highly recommend the interview on the "Everything Electric", YT channel this week with uk company LiNa on the dubjectbof Sodium ion cells in storage applications.
(Special attention to the temperature soecifications)

[peteroffpist]

Tesla Y made in Berlin with LFP charges to 80% in 15 minutes. Pls get updated

[frenchydampier]

I like the whole idea of a Sodium Ion battery, but only if the price of the car reflected the lower cost of Sodium.

[ChaohsiangChen]

Sodium ion batteries seem to have lower specific energy (energy-to-weight) but higher energy-to-volumn and specific power (power-to-weight). That means it is better for hybrid vehicle applications, especially the large ones.

[johnshikingmountains]

Do sodium ion batteries have fire issues like the LCM batteries?

[ryan]

Did they mention degradation of the Sodium Ion battery? If the battery has very little and lasts a very long time with superior reliability that would be a big factor also did they mention if it can be charged to 100% all the time with little degradation?

[marklefler]

great. Would be interesting to see how thermal management compares with Sodium Ion. Looks like the low end is better. What about the high end. The reduced cost seems great for stationary storage.

[joewilder]

I did some quick research and it seems they actually have a better density than NIMH batteries which have been used in Prius' for years.

[JoeyBlogs]

Once super charging is ubiquitous along with fast charging EVs, battery range will largely become irrelevant. A 200 mile range would be more than adequate. You need a rest anyway every 200 miles driving, so you can fast charge then. Also large scale storage is better suited to sodium ion technology, due to safety.

[fitfly]

What about battery-degredation in time (cycle-life) of a sodium-ion battery?