Donald Hoffman “We Are Living in a SIMULATION!” (354)

Is reality real, or are we actually just living in a simulation? How did Galileo influence modern thinking about reality? And are there any drug experiences that you simply can't come back from?

Here today to discuss this with me is renowned philosopher, famous TED talk speaker, cognitive scientist, and deep thinker Donald Hoffman!

Donald is a professor in the Department of Cognitive Science at the University of California, Irvine, and the author of the provocative book The Case Against Reality. So, there is really no one better out there to discuss reality with!

Tune in and join us as Donald presents his case against reality.

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Intro (00:00)
Judging a book by its cover: The Case Against Reality (01:02)
How Galileo influenced modern thinking about reality (07:16)
Can biology predict how consciousness emerges? (20:12)
What is panpsychism? (24:54)
Is reality just a linguistic construction? (35:00)
How are humans supposed to interact with the “real” world? (47:19)
Is consciousness a unique filter into reality? (51:18)
Can computers be conscious? (54:55)
Are there drug experiences that you can't come back from? (1:01:33)
Outro (1:09:08)

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Please watch: "Neil DeGrasse Tyson: Plays the Race Card!"
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[ThorKillian]

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:

00:00 *📚 Don Hoffman discusses the provocative themes of his book "The Case Against Reality" and its cover image, which challenges perceptions of reality.*
- Hoffman explains the distinction between primary and secondary qualities as outlined by Galileo, highlighting the subjective nature of certain perceptions.
- The evolutionary argument against perceiving objective reality is introduced, suggesting that natural selection shapes sensory systems to prioritize fitness over truth.
03:15 *🔬 Hoffman delves into the implications of evolution by natural selection on our perception of reality.*
- Evolutionary Game Theory is used to argue that sensory systems are not shaped to perceive objective reality but rather to enhance fitness.
- The limitations of human perception in understanding objective reality are discussed, emphasizing the need to interpret data cautiously.
12:57 *🧠 The inadequacy of human senses in describing objective reality is examined.*
- Hoffman explains how the language of our sensory perception, shaped by evolution, is insufficient for describing the true nature of reality.
- Analogy to virtual reality gaming is used to illustrate the disconnect between sensory perception and objective reality, highlighting the need for alternative perspectives.
19:01 *🌳 Different Views on Existence and Perception*
- George Berkeley proposed a theological view where existence is tied to perception.
- Berkeley's perspective contrasts with the physicalist view, which defines existence in terms of space, time, energy, and matter.
- He challenged the materialist notions prevalent in scientific discourse, advocating for the primacy of perception in defining reality.
20:53 *🧠 The Mystery of Consciousness*
- Consciousness remains a perplexing mystery in scientific inquiry.
- Most cognitive neuroscientists attribute conscious experiences to brain activity.
- Theories attempting to explain consciousness range from quantum mechanical explanations to computational architectures within the brain.
25:02 *📚 Balancing Scientific Inquiry with Critique*
- The scientific community engages in rigorous critique and examination of ideas, regardless of their origin.
- Concerns arise when scientific theories border on the fantastical or verge into pseudoscience.
- Striking a balance between openness to diverse ideas and maintaining scientific rigor is crucial for advancing knowledge.
26:40 *🌌 Exploring Panpsychism and Consciousness*
- Panpsychism emerges as a philosophical response to the inadequacy of physicalist explanations for consciousness.
- Panpsychism posits that consciousness may be inherent in all matter, challenging traditional materialist views.
- Variations of panpsychism propose different approaches to integrating consciousness into the fabric of reality, either as a monist or dualist concept.
34:30 *🤔 Questioning the Nature of Reality*
- Reality, as perceived by individuals, is constructed through sensory experiences and linguistic narratives.
- Philosophical debates, such as Kant's distinction between phenomena and noumena, question the accessibility of objective reality.
- While evolutionary theory presupposes an objective reality, human cognition allows for conceptual exploration beyond immediate sensory perceptions.
38:23 *🧠 Reality as a Perceptual Construct*
- Evolutionary theory suggests that sensory systems serve as guides to adaptive behavior rather than revealing objective reality.
- Metaphors like virtual reality headsets help conceptualize how sensory perception constructs a subjective reality.
- Evolutionary psychology offers insights into why humans perceive certain sensory stimuli and behaviors as beneficial for survival and reproduction.
41:45 *🎶 Evolutionary Perspectives on Music*
- Evolutionary psychology proposes explanations for seemingly non-adaptive traits, such as the enjoyment of music.
- Music may have evolved as a bonding and cooperative experience among social groups.
- Analogous to "auditory cheesecake, " music combines various sensory elements to elicit pleasurable experiences.
47:10 *🧠 Addressing the Flaws of Perception*
- Acknowledging the limitations of human perception prompts a reevaluation of reality and consciousness.
- Despite flawed perceptions, scientific inquiry offers tools to probe beyond sensory experiences.
- Proposing mathematical formalisms for consciousness challenges traditional views of reality as emergent from space and time.
56:50 *🧠 Frameworks for Consciousness in Physicalist and Panpsychist Perspectives*
- Consciousness can be approached within frameworks that view space, time, and matter as fundamental.
- Perspectives differ on whether machines, including brains, can generate consciousness.
- Physicalist frameworks posit that consciousness emerges from complex physical systems like the brain.
59:05 *🌀 Consciousness as Fundamental in Reality*
- In some frameworks, consciousness is considered fundamental, not derived from physical processes.
- The metaphor of a vast social network of interacting consciousnesses is used to explain reality.
- Space-time is viewed as a visualization tool for consciousness, rather than the basis of reality.
01:00:00 *🛸 Reverse Engineering Consciousness and Space-Time*
- Proposed is a model where consciousness interacts with a space-time "headset" as a tool for interaction.
- The goal is to reverse engineer this interaction to potentially open portals to other consciousnesses.
- This approach contrasts with traditional AI, as it starts with consciousness and works towards understanding and utilizing it.
01:01:39 *🧭 The Value of Attention and Innocence*
- Attention is considered a precious commodity, often more valuable than time.
- The irreversibility of certain experiences, particularly those affecting innocence, is highlighted.
- Personal experiences and the impact of irreversible choices, such as drug use, are discussed, raising questions about their long-term effects.
01:04:13 *🧪 Irreversible Effects of Drug Experiences*
- There are discussions about irreversible effects of certain drug experiences on neurochemistry and personal growth.
- Individual differences in reactions to drugs and the potential irreversibility of some experiences are acknowledged.
- Consideration is given to the caution needed when exploring altered states of consciousness, especially regarding potential long-term consequences.
01:06:44 *🚀 Advice for Venturing into the Unknown*
- Advice is given to embrace learning, challenge authority, and pursue mathematical understanding.
- The importance of humility, openness to new ideas, and avoiding dogmatism in inquiry is emphasized.
- Reflecting on personal growth and the pursuit of knowledge, the importance of bravery and humility in venturing into the unknown is underscored.

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[Hero_of_Tsushima]

As someone whose gone through life with a constant disconnect from “reality” learning and reading about reality, consciousness, and thought has honestly began changing my life. No one or any circumstance in my life has made me suffer more than the way I view and think about my own reality. It’s such a simple truth but took me so many years to realize.

“We are prisoners to what we know.”

[jediknight]

Watching my mom wither away from cancer this gives me hope we are not just a bag of water, that we are more than our bodies ❤

[kokomanation]

It’s a shame that our simulated reality has so much emotional suffering

[leonfth]

For the love of god Brian, I haven't gotten much sleep the last couple of days. I just had to watch your conversations with these remarkable gentlemen and I'm seven hours ahead of east coast time (Europe). Yeah, I could theoretically wait until tomorrow, but I love Donald's work so I think I'll just have a spliff and listen to you and Donald . Thanks man.

[davidfarrall]

Even in a supposed Simulation, we still experience a kind of Reality (which is highly debatable and we don’t understand it fully…….)

[k.h.p.]

We may be in a simulation, but the pain and suffering certainly feels real.

[gungadin]

Our Hindu Vedics said this 5, 000 years ago. Only God and its Light is real and rest is NOT

[jtinalexandria]

If we don't know what reality really looks like, and we have nothing to compare it with, how can we know that what we experience isn't reality?

[virtualworldsbyloff]

Ok, we are, ok, so what changes now ??? No more taxes, can we file complains, can we start flying ???

[ssing]

Why did my headset not turn me into a gigachad who just have tons of women and I look like a model? 😂😂😂

[nemyslicodm]

" Matter doesn't exist - consciousness creates matter"

[meows_and_woof]

As someone who had hallucinations lasted 5 days no we only see the reality as far as our brain allows us to see.
I has visual, hearing, tactile and just in perception general hallucinations, for example a noise from the vacuum cleaner I heard as a creature making scary sounds. I could feel the touch which wasn’t there including sever pain like someone is stabbing me so real I was screaming in pain. It was so real till now I’m not sure what was a hallucination and what real what happened that time

[leestewart]

Simulation or not, our reality is real to us, and that makes it real.

[matthewlock]

Reading the Case Against Reality at the moment and have watched many interviews with Don, including his collaboration with Rupert Spira. Very interesting. The fly analogy in particular makes me wonder whether there are other entities sharing this reality with us, but our senses just can't perceive them, or block them out.

[dorothysatterfield]

Got here by way of Bernardo Kastrup. Very much enjoyed this discussion, thank you, and I'm really looking forward to the audiobook version of Galileo's Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems.

[GM-oi]

Discussions of fundamental issues are always significant.

The extreme subjectivist principle, "Senses and concepts do not reflect objective reality AT ALL, " is not only an exaggeration and, therefore, false but also contradictory and thus twofold false:

To avoid the exaggeration, we should say, "Senses and concepts PARTLY reflect objective reality."

The contradiction is that this principle rejects the objective value of all concepts and, nonetheless, uses the concept of objective reality.

[hireality]

Brilliant conversation. Thank you so much Brian to finally talk with Donald Hoffman. I read his book, I live 10 minutes away from UCI and can’t wait to invite him to my channel and ask him questions about Reality✨👍

[sixtysecondphilosopher]

Can someone help with my question.

If the reality in my headset only comes on when I observe it, how does one explain a rock falling on my head? If a rock falls and I am unaware of it, until the point it hits me on the back of my head, then the rock had to have been present and in motion irrespective of it being directly present in my headset. It has to have an independent reality in regards locality and place. Thoughts please so I can get my head around his brilliant work.

[ItCanAlwaysGetWorse]

About machines being able to achieve consciousness: The two assertions @57:31 then ...57:40 - seem to state the opposite: a) why not, b) then aduce principle reasons to deny that inanimate matter can "boot up" consciousness.
Nothing wrong with stating both possibilities. I just would like to understand Hoffman's leanings to the hypothesis of inanimate matter transition to consciousness.