Richard Swinburne on justification for Trinity belief

Renowned Oxford analytic theologian Richard Swinburne, here in a lecture on the trinity, makes some astonishing admissions.

[LoveAndLibertyChannel]

You know there is something wrong with a doctrine that had to be enforced by the power of the sword and the stake over the centuries. Today, many who claim to believe in the Trinity affirm it because they were told they must believe it in order to be a Christian, or to be a member of a church; it's not because they learned it from reading scripture, nor did their pastor, but they obediently toe the line nonetheless. Some affirm it for reasons pertaining to other social pressures or career requirements, and it enhances their standing to delegitimize those who believe in God, his Son, and his spirit, but reject the idea that God is a three person being. And of course, some internet apologists would have you to believe it's all so clear and only stupid people reject it.

A reformation is upon us. May the true teaching of the prophets, the apostles, and Jesus shine forth. There is one true God, and one magnificent human Messiah who is now Lord of all.

As the UCA once stated on X:

"Join us as we storm the dark trinitarian
cathedral with the blazing light of truth."

[henryizzard]

It’s nice to have the affirmation from someone who is a world renowned expert on the subject very clearly and directly expressing that biblical Unitarian interpretations of scripture are entirely plausible. Much nicer than the usual ‘that’s stupid’ ‘it’s so obvious’ from the deniers of Christs true humanity and sonship.

[RickNaviello]

There's the first century view of the man Jesus versus the fourth and fifth century mystical reimagination of him. I'll go with the earliest view, you know, from those that actually knew him.

[SonOfGodByNewBirthInChrist]

Acts 20:29-30
I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them.

Jesus said you would know them by their fruits. What grew into the organized ‘Orthodox Church’ was full of the blood of the Saints, who would not accept their doctrines.

[dboulos]

Accepting Swinburne's testimony i.e. all things being equal as far as interpretation goes - trinitarianism gets obliterated as far as conclusions and implications of such an interpretation is concerned: god-man, 3 all-powerful persons in one Being (redundancy), God sacrificing Himself to Himself, obscure Biblical attestation, confusion how to pray, etc...

[billschlegel]

Not only can Trinitarian "proof texts" be understood differently, but there are many, many biblical texts that directly contradict a trinitarian understanding of God.
"As for us, there is one God, the Father..."

[navayana]

Agree or disagree, it's so refreshing to hear pure, actual theological youtube videos

[TRUTHSEEKER]

Just started watching all of your video's on YouTube, didn't recognize you with no hair or glasses! keep up the good fight for ONE GOD THE FATHER!

[Ha-Elyon]

So ignore the Churchs opinion as authoritative but accept this oxford scholar as authoritative, gotcha ;)

[dulcetsimone]

I'm confused. How can a Biblical Unitarian be a Protestant?

The Reformers were still very Catholic. Therefore, Protestants still hold to a lot of Catholic doctrine.

The Trinity, Eternal conscious Torment, original sin, etc.

[Phillold]

Yes, there are other possible ways but those ways make you a polytheist. 😂😂😂😂😂

[TaxEvasin]

Lol I just watched the video the other week. If I remember correctly, he wasn't actually presenting a case for the trinity. I remember him at one point (maybe a different video) seemingly debunking the trinity. So I was shocked AND disappointed to find out later in a separate interview that he had converted to Orthodox and accepts the trinity.

For a rather astute thinker, it seems that he had given up all faculties in that decision to accept the trinity as being true, when he is quite clear about it's origins and developments.

He's basically submitted to the traditions and reasoning of man, instead of the Bible. That was insane to me.

[HarrisBeauchamp]

I mean, I would argue the fact that the majority of the church for so long has interpreted those passages that way IS a good reason to interpret them that way. But that reason has to be weighed against the reasons for interpreting them otherwise.😊

[godwinrebeiro]

What does that mean..with all due respect to R. swineburn, A part of his speech settled the issue once and for all
? he is more of an academic philosopher than a theologian...And probably a layman in exegesis. so its possible that he might think one cannot derive the concept of trinity from the new testament all though the idea pervades the new testament. Consider it an other occasion he went wrong.

[asies]

In an article called "Re-reading Laudato Si" in La Croix, pope Francis, has the key to discern the mystery of Trinity: it's "in the interrelatedness of all things in creation." Got it?😅
Francis: "The development of an ecological spirituality, which Francis proposes, is strengthened within the Christian tradition by treasuring the sacramental signs, particularly Eucharist; by revering the mystery of the Incarnation and its echo in the bodily nature of worship; by cultivating Sabbath rest; and by discerning the mystery of Trinity in the interrelatedness of all things in creation (233–240)."

Do protestants and evangelicals revere both the mystery of the incarnation and the mystery of the trinity?

[ukasxm]

What theology did Jesus preach? Not the early church fathers.

[vincentcieluch]

In my mind enough is enough with this, as 1Timothy 4:1 puts it, "doctrines of devil's" and that's what the doctrine of the Trinity is! To say a man is God is putting Elohims creation equal to or above Him, and that is called idolatry. Just as Romans 1:25 states
"Who CHANGED the truth of God into a LIE, and worshipped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever Amen"
Jesus is part of the creation, he was BORN, and when you're born, you had a beginning, and anything that has a beginning is part of the creation. Well as Jesus taught that they "teach for doctrine the commandments of men" and in so many cases the "men" he's referring to are the "sons of Belial"; so when we put the Word together it makes so much good sense, the doctrine of devil's in
1Timothy4:1 are the doctrines of men in Matthew 15:9 - Mark 7:7-9... The doctrines may very in content, but it's the same Devil pushing the lies! Ok one last thing, Jesus also taught that, the blind lead the blind and both fall into the ditch, well folks I believe he was referring to the "sewage ditch" so go ahead and believe the lie of this three headed God- god myth and Fable, your going to come out just a bit STINKY!

[rohanholt]

I’d love a link to Swinburne’s video if possible …?

[RealityConcurrence]

I’ll challenge it. If God is Love as the Bible teaches, he needs an object to dote upon. This object can be the world in temporal time, but before the world came to be and before all of creation existed, how could God exist as love and yet remain without an object to show love to? He can’t be love only in relation to creation; the Bible clearly teaches ontologically in his nature he is Love. So if he does not require an aspect of creation to be Love, and yet every display of Love and in fact in its very essence, Love requires something to be loved in order to exist, a Unitarian God is complete nonsense. Only by confessing the Trinity do we see a monotheistic God who can be love as the relationship between the coequal persons is, in fact, the very nature of God. God cannot be love and singular in person.

Christ says He is in the Father and the Father is in Him, He claims to be coequal to the Father by using the name “I Am, ” the Father confirms His legitimacy as Son and therefore coequal with the Father in two separate occasions by speaking from Heaven, Christ was vindicated as the true word of God by being raised from the dead, the Spirit is referred to as the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of God, He is shown to proceed from the Father and the Son in the economic Trinity and therefore the ontological Trinity, and Christ sends the Spirit to us with a mission more important than if He were to stay bodily among us on earth, therefore vindicating the Spirit as equal to Christ and thus the Father. I swear Arianism just gets a repaint every year or so and suddenly people start shouting “the word trinity never appears in scripture!!” Yeah, sure, Right… and God played a practical joke when he raised the only man to claim to be his equal from the dead?

[alanrozario]

One more reason to reject sola scriptura